Thursday, January 21, 2016

DNA testing and Germans Records

Hello all,

Apologies for neglecting this page.. sometimes my life and research are so busy that I can't find the spare time to write here. 2015 was a busy year and also ended in some sad times for my family, as for the first time I lost some close family members, my grandfather Robert Mayville, and my young cousin Sydney Kratochwill. As a genealogist it's a strange thing to go through. I have been working hard to preserve my family's history and trying to document the memories and experiences of my remaining grandparents as best as I can. 

As far as my genealogical research in 2015, it all boiled down to two main things, DNA testing and German records!

I have been attempting to use DNA testing to try to break down some brick walls. I first tested my dad, in an attempt to find out more about our Paternal line, the Walter/Walters/Walther family. Our furthest back paternal ancestor is Simon Walter, who was supposedly born 10 Apr 1810 in "Neubeuren bei Wiesenfeld" and is a complete brick wall for me. No idea where that place is, as there doesn't seem to be a real place with that combination of place names, and I have no idea who his parents were.

Based on my grandpa's autosomal test results, which had quite a few matches with mostly English ancestry, I had suspected that perhaps Simon might not be from Germany as he had said he was. He was over 40 when he came to the U.S. and married Margaretha Kaemmlein, so I wondered if he had something to hide, if he perhaps had another family elsewhere. My grandpa's ancestors all immigrated immediately from Germany, so I had no other explanation for the matches with solely English ancestry.

So, my dad agreed to do a Y-DNA test, which traces only the direct male line. I did not get answers that I expected to get, and unluckily, no close matches to help solve my mystery... The results mention that my dad has the haplogroup 1-P37 (I2a). Interestingly this haplogroup is more common in eastern and southeastern Europe, and rare in Germany, but it is one that can occasionally be seen in Germany. We don't have any close matches but have some further away, with a genetic distance of 6 or more, which is not beneficial for my research. The matches have most distant ancestors from Poland, Ukraine, and Greece to name a few. 


I next wanted to try my luck with the Diebold brick wall. I asked my cousin to help me out, who is a direct male Diebold. He agreed and took the Y-DNA test for me. Our brick wall ancestor is Johann Diebold b. 18 Jul 1828, supposedly in "Elsass-Zabern." His parents were supposedly named, Joseph and Margaret Diebold (no maiden name given), but that's not much to go off of. Records for Bas-Rhin are online, but are not indexed. So, without an exact town name it's been impossible to find him.

The test results came back and from it we learned that the Diebolds have a haplogroup of E-L117. This haplogroup is most common among northern Africans but is also present in some Europeans, indicating a possible direct male ancestor who came to Europe from Africa around 10,000 years ago (or sooner, but for us that will be nearly impossible to determine). We unfortunately have NO matches at this time, so that also doesn't help in my quest right now.. so, for now I wait patiently and hope that someone will take the test.


On the Mayville Y-DNA front we have worked with the "French Heritage DNA Project" to map the genome of the Miville line. We are also hoping to find some Mieville/Miville descendants who still live in Switzerland today, in hopes that we can confirm where our immigrant ancestor, Pierre Miville, was from. We had a new, close match pop up earlier this week so we are excited to work out the connection with this new match.


Additionally, I am working on recruiting male Walsh descendants to take the Y-DNA test at FTDNA.com, too. We may be able to convince one person who is known to descend from my Walsh line, and I am hoping to find a descendant of Martin Walsh (b. 1837) to take the Y-DNA test, also, as he is supposed to be a half brother of my ancestor John Walsh (b. 1810). I am hoping to find other Walsh descendants to take the autosomal DNA test.. it would be nice to get others who descend from the many Walshes who were in Dane Co., in the mid-to-late nineteenth century, to take the autosomal test in hopes of connecting our lines together and perhaps finding the place of origin for the Walshes in Ireland. 

It would be nice to find a male Tice descendant to take a Y-DNA test, too.



I also managed to take a test at 23andMe recently. I previously had autosomal kits at Ancestry and FTDNA, but had not yet tested with 23andMe, so now I am in all three major databases, plus gedmatch.com (free comparison site). Below, for fun, are the ethnicity estimates provided by each company. On left is Ancestry's estimate, middle is 23andMe, and on the right is FTDNA. It's interesting to see how different their algorithms are.


(Click to view the full image)


My other big project of 2015 was to try to track down as many records or family books for the German towns my ancestors lived in, as I could. I spent quite a lot of time doing this, especially in locating records for Duengenheim and nearby towns where my Hagemann, Emmerich, and other associated families were from. I made a lot of progress with this and also made some new friends from across the pond who have been immensely helpful in tracing my lineage. I owe a lot to Gerhard and Remy.

There are still a lot of records to be found and requested from the Family History Library in Salt Lake City. They have many German records on microfilm, but it is a time consuming task, so I will probably have to wait until the summer to order more microfilms. That will certainly keep me busy.

Saturday, March 21, 2015

Notes for later.. (More Irish queries)

Digging in Irish recs again. Is this Mary Rice Boyd?
1900 Census
Event Place:Precinct 41 West Town Chicago city Ward 10, Cook, Illinois, United States 
HouseholdRoleGenderAgeBirthplace
James Boyd HeadM40Ireland
Mary Boyd WifeF42Ireland
Martha Boyd DaughterF18Illinois
Mary Boyd DaughterF15Illinois
Andrew Boyd SonM12Illinois
Louisa Boyd DaughterF10Illinois
Samuel Boyd SonM7Illinois
Lilly Boyd DaughterF4Illinois


Is this a death record for James Rice's wife, Mary Donnelan?
Illinois, Cook County Deaths

Name:Mary E. Rice
Event Type:Death
Event Date:09 Jun 1904
Event Place:, Cook, Illinois, United States
Gender:Female
Age:43
Marital Status:Widowed
Ethnicity:American
Race:White
Occupation:housewife
Birth Year (Estimated):1861
Birthplace:England
Burial Date:12 Jun 1904
Cemetery:Mt Carmel
Record Number:43
Source Reference:cn 15362
GS Film Number: 1239705 , Digital Folder Number: 004004490 , Image Number: 00983



O'Neills. I have a new DNA match indicating possible relationships to O'Neills. What can I find in records?

If we recall from the Griffith's valuation down lower on this page, who is very likely may ancestor Catherine Hurst is listed next to a Dominick O'Neill. If this is my Catherine, as all evidence indicates so far, her maiden name was Catherine. My DNA match is to a descendant of Mary O'Neill who married Michael O'Malley. I have in my notes that Mary O'Neill was born in Islandeady. the O'Malleys seem to have widely inhabited Co. Mayo, but especially the area of Westport, and Mary O'Neill O'Malley and her husband Michael, as well as several of their children, came to Dane Co., Wisconsin and started the town of Westport, which is ALSO where my ancestor James Hurst settled.. aha. 

Mary O'Neill O'Malley had a son named Dominick who is tied to my Walsh/Hurst family via several documents. Dominick O'Malley. Hmm. Dominick O'Neill? So, who was the Dominick O'Neil on the 1855 Griffith's valuation of the towns in Islandeady parish? I'm finding a couple of Dominick O'Neils who had kids in the 1840s and beyond in Islandeady Parish... First is this guy, who married a Sabina Rodgers:


Name:DominickO'NeilDate of Death:25-Aug-1876
Age:78yParish / District:Islandeady district
Address:DerrycourainCounty:Co. Mayo
Status:MarriedDenomination:Civil Parish
Occupation:LANDHOLDERSex:Male
GraveyardInformant
Graveyard:Relationship:Householder
Parish:Name:Sabina O'Neil
County:Address:Derrycourain

b. about 1798? Catherine O'Neill Hurst was b. about 1813 according to her death rec.
Living in Derrycourane? Well, this sounds familiar, doesn't it?

Kids of Dominick & Sabina (Rodgers) (remember recs started around 1840 or later, so there could be earlier kids than this):


1) Catherine baptized 28 May 1844, res. "Derrycourane," Islandeady RC parish, witnesses: Daniel Rogers and CATHERINE O'Neil.

2) Dominick baptized 12 Jun 1847, res. "Deracourane," Islandeady RC parish, witnesses: not recorded.

3) Patrick O'Neal baptized 15 Feb 1853, residence not given, Islandeady RC Parish; witnesses: John RYCE & Bridget RYCE.

4) Honor O'Neil baptized 1 Dec 1854, residence not given, Islandeady RC Parish; witnesses: PATRICK HURST and ELLEN HURST.

5) Daniel O'Neal baptized 29 Mar 1861, residence not given, Islandeady RC Parish; witnesses: Edward Gillen and Bridget Molloy.

I think there are very likely other children that aren't popping up in the list above, possibly not easy to find based on the variations possible with the name "Dominick" so we may need to wait until the parish registers come out this summer to search by hand and see if any other children pop up. Though, judging from the death rec, if Dominick was really born in about 1798, he's having these kids in his 50s and 60s.. so, possibly had a first wife before this, and other kids born before the 1840 start of records.


Other Dominick O'Neils having kids baptized in Islandeady Parish:

1) Michael O'Neil son of Dominick O'Neil and Anne Stephens; baptized 27 Apr 1846, residence "Derychoran"; parish Islandeady. Witness: Michael Brady.

2) Anne O'Neil daughter of Dominick O'Neil and Anne O'Neil; baptized 19 Dec 1840, residence "Derrahoran," parish Islandeady. Witnesses: Patrick Walsh and Margaret Calaghan.

3) Dominick O'Neil son of Dominick O'Neil and Anne Hopkins; baptized 7 Jan 1844, residence not given, parish Islandeady. Witnesses: James Corcoran and Bridget Hopkins.


Saturday, March 7, 2015

Walsh family from Galway?

In addition to my recent search for my Hurst ancestors from County Mayo, I've also been on the hunt for my Walsh ancestors; another brick wall of mine.

My ancestor Mary Ann Walsh was supposedly born 24 Oct 1848 in "Galway," Ireland. I've never known if this meant the county or the city. Her parents were John (1811-1878) and Bridget (Feb 1809-12 April 1895). I have not been able to find anything about these guys, including Bridget's maiden name. We have a picture of Bridget and I have copies of her probate file, but I haven't found anything useful from them. According to a cousin via Mary Ann's sister Bridget (Walsh) Busby, Bridget's maiden name was also Walsh but she supposedly wasn't related in any way to her husband John Walsh. According to this same source, Bridget killed an English soldier who was burning her father's hands because he wouldn't tell the soldier where his "pots of gold" were (this is directly from her letter). Because of this, Bridget had to flee and the letter continues, stating that Mary Ann was born at sea rather than born in Ireland. I've never heard this story before and neither had my grandma, so we are both really curious as to the veracity of the story. I have no idea how to prove it, though. I've always been told that the Walshes immigrated when Mary Ann was six months old, but I've never found a ship manifest for them, yet.

I thought I'd look on rootsireland.ie for her and did not have any luck finding either Mary Ann nor her parents. I searched for any children born to parents named John Walsh and Bridget (no maiden name specified). I found a lot of them in Co. Galway, and also expanded my search to Co. Mayo, just in case. Nothing I found matches what I know about the make up of my Walsh family.

I've assumed that John and Bridget, based on their ages, were likely married in the early 1830s. If that's the case my information is very lacking on their children, as I only have four confirmed children, those being:
1) Thomas Welch b. ~1840 in Ireland; married Hannah O'Malley in Wisconsin; d. 17 Nov 1880.
2) Judy Walsh b ~1845 in Ireland; appears only on the 1860 census and listed as "deaf & dumb." I've never found anything else about her.
3) Mary Ann Walsh b. 24 Oct 1848 in Ireland? married James Hurst; d. 24 Dec 1925
4) Anna Rachel Walsh b. 29 Sep 1850 Dane Co., WI; married Thomas F. Ryan; d. 20 Mar 1932
5) Bridget Walsh b. 10 Dec 1854 Dane Co., WI; married William A. Busby; d. 23 Jun 1932

I didn't find any records matching this family profile for the children b. in Ireland; but it could just be that there are no records online yet for the parish they were born in. I thought I would post what I did find in case it becomes relevant later:


CO. Galway
Children of John Walsh and Bridget Kenny of Sorreltown (Parish Dunmore, Co. Galway)
-Martin Walsh bap. 16 Nov 1836
Sponsor(s): Martin Glynn & Mary Duane

-Mary Walsh bap. 30 Sep 1838
Sponsor(s): Michael Scarry & Mary Burke

-Michael Walsh bap. 20 Sep 1841
Sponsor(s): Thomas and Margaret Glennon

-Thomas Walsh bap. 20 Dec 1844
Sponsor(s): Mary Kenny

-Bridget Walsh bap. 12 Jan 1846
Sponsor(s): Patrick and Honor Devine


Children of John Walsh and Bridget Walsh of Oranmore Parish, Co. Galway
-Thomas Walsh bap. 21 Nov 1842
Sponsor(s): Patrick Farrel and Bridget Tierny

-Margaret Walsh b. 14 Dec 1845; bap. 28 Dec 1845
Sponsor(s): Bridget Connell

-John Walsh bap. 29 Jun 1849
Sponsor(s): James Baley and Mary Ward


John Walsh & Bridget Walsh of Kilcummin Oughterard, County Galway
-Patrick Walsh bap. 24 Dec 1837
Sponsor(s): Samuel Maxwell & Mary Walsh

-Mary Walsh bap. 4 Feb 1845
Sponsor(s): Thomas Sullivan and Mary Rutledge


John Walsh & Bridget Fahy (cripple) of Kilcummin Oughterard, Co. Galway
-John Walsh bap. 14 Jun 1842
Sponsor(s): Martin McHoy and Mary Rall


John Walsh & Bridget Folan of Truskee West (Rahoon Parish, Co. Galway)
-unnamed Walsh bap. 11 Dec 1837 (Knockanacarragh)
Sponsor(s): Martin Folan & Honor Walsh

-Margaret Walsh bap. 1 Nov 1839 (res. Knockanacariagh)
Sponsor(s): Martin Folan and Honor Walsh

-Honor Walsh bap. 20 Oct 1846
Sponsor(s): Sabina Joyce

-Michael Walsh bap. 5 May 1850
Sponsor(s): Sabina Joyce

-Martin Walsh bap. 18 Sep 1853
Sponsor(s): Mary Hickey


John Walsh & Bridget Triston (Trisnane or Preston) of Palinee (Rahoon Parish, Co. Galway)
-Thomas Walsh bap. 19 Dec 1836
Sponsor(s): Mary Flaherty

-Owen Walsh bap. 1 Jul 1839
Sponsor(s): Patrick Preston & Bridget Kelly

-Mary Walsh bap 4 Sep 1842
Sponsor(s): Patrick Trisnane and Mary Flaherty

-John Walsh bap 1 Nov 1844
Sponsor(s): Patrick Triston & Mary Flaherty


John Walsh & Bridget Mullins of Parkavera (Rahoon Parish, Co. Galway)
-Michael Walsh bap. 17 Jul 1846
Sponsor(s): James Sweeney and Margaret Walsh


John Walsh and Bridget Kean of Liss, Parish Abbeyknockmoy, Co. Galway
-Anne Walsh, bap. 29 Apr 1846
Sponsor(s): Mary Kean


John Walsh and Bridget Joyce of Turlagh, Parish Rosmuc, Co. Galway
-Anne Walsh bap. 23 May 1846
Sponsor(s): Colman Conry and Catherine Thornton

-Honor Walsh bap. 6 Aug 1850
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Anna Walsh

-Colman Walsh bap. 26 Jun 1855
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Anna Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget Kilroy of Parish Woodford, Co. Galway
-Catherine Walsh bap. 12 Apr 1837
Sponsor(s): Patrick Conry & Margaret Conry

-Bridget Walsh bap. 5 Nov 1841
Sponsor(s): Patrick Banfield & Bridget Gleeson


John Walsh & Bridget Hennessy of Parish Woodford, Co. Galway
-John Walsh bap. 12 Mar 1838
Sponsor(s): Thomas Gaffy & Maria Hennessy


John Walsh & Bridget Duggan of Parish Moycullen, Co. Galway
-Bridget Walsh
Sponsor(s): Thomas Walsh & Catherine Melia


John Walsh & Bridget Colmer of Parish Donaghpatrick, Co. Galway
-Bartholomew Walsh bap. 26 Jun 1853
Sponsor(s): John Kane & Mary Kane

John Walsh & Bridget Hession of Tuam Parish, Co. Galway
-Mary Walsh bap. 24 Aug 1854
Sponsor(s): John G. King & Judith Noone

John Walsh & Bridget Dempsey of Killeenadeema Parish, Co. Galway
-Mary Walshe b. 3 May 1836; bap. 5 May 1836
Sponsor(s): Thomas Mitchell and Mary Connelly


Co. Mayo

John Walsh & Bridget Brennan of Balanamorogue, Parish Islandeady
-Patrick Walsh bap 7 Sep 1839
Sponsor(s): Patrick Brennan and Bridget Brennan

-Bridget Walsh bap. 11 May 1845
Sponsor(s): Thomas Walsh & Mary McGreal


John Walsh & Bridget Swords of Derychase, Parish Islandeady
-Ellen Walsh bap. 10 Feb 1846
Sponsor(s): Anthony Swords


John Walsh & Bridget Brannelly of Islandeady Parish
-Mary Walsh bap 15 Dec 1841
Sponsor(s): Mary Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget Flynn of Aglish Parish
-Thomas Walsh bap 20 Feb 1845
sponsors John Flynn and Bridget Walsh.


John Walsh & Bridget Ludden of Aglish Parish
-Michael Walsh b. 1 May 1841
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh

-Patrick Walsh bap. 16 Mar 1845
Sponsor(s): Michael Walsh & Winifred Lavell

-Catherine Walsh bap 10 May 1847
Sponsor(s): Anthony Walsh and Judith Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget Trembleton of Aglish Parish
-Michael Walsh bap 3 Sept 1844
Sponsor(s): James MacGuire and Catherine Fitzmorris


John Walsh & Bridget Jordan of Aglish Parish
-Mary Walsh BORN 2 Dec 1842
Sponsor(s): Anthony Walsh and Margaret Malley


John Walsh & Bridget Canton of Aglish Parish
-James Walsh bap. 16 Feb 1840
Sponsor(s): Mrs. Fahey


John Walsh & Bridget Carney of Aglish Parish
-Thomas Walsh b. 8 Nov 1838
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh & Mary Walsh

-Patrick Walsh bap 6 Nov 1840
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Mary Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget Jennings of Barradruma/Burrin, Aglish Parish
-Patrick Walsh bap 1 Jan 1854
Sponsor(s): Patrick Corcoran and Margaret Walsh

-Mary Walsh b. 13 Apr 1855; bap. 17 Apr 1855
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Honoria Jennings


John Walsh & Bridget Gannon of Elmhall, Balla Parish
-Catherine Walsh bap 25 Feb 1839
Sponsor(s): Redmond Walsh and Margaret Cannon

-Honor Walsh bap 1 Oct 1841
Sponsor(s): Michael and Bridget Walsh

-Edmond Walsh bap. 10 Sep 1844
Sponsor(s): Peter Joyce and Honor Gannon


John Walsh & Bridget McHugh of Lognamuck, Balla Parish
-Michael Walsh bap 25 Aug 1842
Sponsor(s): Thomas and Bridget Walsh

-James Walsh bap. 28 Sep 1844
Sponsor(s): James Walsh & Bridget Kavanaugh

-John Walsh bap. 16 Apr 1846
Sponsor(s): Patrick Ryan & Mary Ryan

-Anne Walsh bap 1 Jan 1852
Sponsor(s): James Keans and Mary Walsh

-Michael Walsh bap. 1 Apr 1855
Sponsor(s): David and Elizabeth Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget Kilgallen of Balla Parish
-Margaret Walsh bap 2 Mar 1844
Sponsor(s): James Corbet & Ellen Timond

-Michael Walsh bap 10 Jan 1847
Sponsor(s): James Killgalin and Celia Killgalin


John Walsh & Bridget Mally of Cuilaneellane (and Bohane), Burriscarra Parish
-Patrick Walsh bap. 10 Feb 1845
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Mary Mally

-Mary Walsh bap 10 Feb 1846
Sponsor(s): Owen Mally and Anne Mally


John Walsh & Bridget Gavin of Maumeens, Burriscarra Parish
-Catherine Walsh bap 14 Dec 1840
Sponsor(s): Thomas Brennan and Anne Gavin


John Walsh & Bridget Comons/Commins of Crossboyne & Tagheen RC Parish
-Michael Walsh bap 21 Aug 1836
Sponsor(s): James and Bridget Walsh

-James Walsh bap 9 Jan 1838
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Bridget Mury

-Mary Walsh bap. 11 Jul 1841
Sponsor(s): James Walsh and Mary Comons

-Thomas Walsh bap. 9 Aug 1844
Sponsor(s): James Walsh and Honor Muney

Maybe same parents as above (wife Bridget Cormican?)
-William Walsh bap 11 Apr 1847
Sponsor(s): Patrick and Mary Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget Walsh of Crossboyne & Tagheen
-James Walsh bap 5 Sep 1843
Sponsor(s): Patrick Sweeny and Mary Burke


John Walsh & Bridget Foye of Crossboyne & Tagheen Parish
-Margaret Walsh bap 2 Aug 1840
Sponsor(s): Mary Kivnan


John Walsh & Bridget Burke of Killenacough, Oughaval Parish
-John Walsh bap. 14 Sep 1846
Sponsor(s): Philip Heverin & Sally Casey


John Walsh & Bridget Walsh of Aughagower, Parish same
-Michael Walsh bap 30 Apr 1846
Sponsor(s): Michael Conway and Bridget Walsh

-Anne Walsh bap 27 Jul 1849
Sponsor(s): Michael Malley and Catherine Barret


John Walsh & Bridget Malley of Cushin, Aghagower Parish
-Anthony Walsh b. 20 Mar 1855
Sponsor(s): Anthony Malley and Bridget Cannon


John Walsh & Bridget no last name rec. of Glassvalley, Shrule Parish
-Martin Walsh bap 13 Nov 1846
Sponsor(s): Martin Heskin & Catherine Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget McHale of Bekan Parish
-Peter Walsh bap 6 Jan (1841?)
Sponsor(s): William and Ellenor Jordan


John Walsh & Bridget Henely of Cahernublan, Ballovey Parish
-Mary Walsh bap 2 Jun 1850
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Patrick Farragher


John Walsh & Bridget Bourke of Cloonboy, Kilcolman Parish
-Mary Walsh bap 1 Nov 1851
Sponsor(s): John Walsh and Ellen Clarke

-Bridget Walsh bap 26 Nov 1854
Sponsor(s): Michael Walsh and Bridget Keegan


John Walsh & Bridget Walsh of Cloonliffin, Ballinrobe Parish
-Thomas Walsh bap 22 Dec 1853
Sponsor(s): Pat Walsh and Honor O'Sullivan


John Walsh & Bridget McGrath of Cregmore, Kilmaine Parish
-Anne Walsh bap 18 Nov 1854
Sponsor(s): Patrick McGrath and Mary Conroy


John Walsh & Bridget Malley of Kilmaine Parish
-Bridget Walsh bap 26 Oct 1854
Sponsor(s): Edward and Mary Naughton


John Walsh & Bridget Walsh of Keelogues Parish
-Anne Walsh bap 27 Sep 1854
Sponsor(s): Michael Murphy and Winny Caufield


John Walsh & Bridget Hughes of Seechane, Kilfian Parish
-John Walsh b. 9 Apr 1835; bap. 12 Apr 1835
Sponsor(s): John Hughes and Mary Walsh


Misc.
Co. Waterford

Judith Walsh bap. 18 Jul 1841 Newcastle Parish, Co. Waterford, parents John Walsh & Brigid Carew; sponsors Jeremiah Carew & Mary Carew.

Saturday, February 28, 2015

Hursts from Mayo Part II

It seems that there is in fact a connection between the names I mentioned in my last post... It seems certain that my DNA match's ancestor descends from John Rice and Ellen Hurst. All we need to do is confirm, via definite records, that Ellen Hurst was the sister to my James Hurst. It's almost certainly true, and if so, I've located where the Hursts lived in Ireland and can proceed with locating more records on my ancestors there. PROBABLY. Fingers crossed. I've written to an archive to hopefully receive a birth or baptismal record for James to confirm the location, and from there I'll be able to confirm this whole theory.


Which begs the question. What other siblings did Ellen and James have? (if they are siblings). A godparent of one of Ellen's children is Patrick Hurst. Could this be another sibling?


I have been photographing Resurrection Cemetery in Madison as part of an ongoing project of mine to get everyone with a photo loaded into find-a-grave. Part of my motivation was that there are a lot of Irish and German immigrants buried in the cemetery, many with common names to some of my families, but which I haven't confirmed yet. I hoped that by photographing these sections I might find new relatives.

One interesting grave that I found last year as that of a Harry Hurst (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=131471179). Hurst is not a common last name. At least, not in Madison, Wisconsin. Therefore I looked into it to see if I could find any possible common ancestry with my James Hurst. Here's a summary of the info I found last year while looking into records:

"Harry and Mary (Betty) had two daughters, Joan and Sheila (m. Merrill Owen). Harry's parents were Michael Hurst (b. 1861 Ireland) and Mary Ruane (b. 1871 Ireland). They were married 14 Feb 1893 in Chicago (witnessed by a James Hurst and a Katie [Keena?]. Michael died 2 Jan 1929 in Chicago, and his death rec lists parents as Patrick Hurst and Ellen Corcoran. Michael appears to have had a brother, James Hurst. Per his death record, James was b. 1 Mar 1868 in Co. Mayo, Ireland to Patrick Hurst and Ellen Corcoran. He died 30 Dec 1923 in Chicago. His wife was Rose Dunn and he was buried here."

Michael.. James... Patrick. Hmm familiar names. And seemingly with a connection to County Mayo. Last year when I wrote that all out, I didn't have access to rootsireland.ie because it was not a subscription site yet (it used to be pay-per-record). I just decided to dig a little more in this, since the Patrick Hurst listed as the father of Michael b. 1861 and James b. 1868 would appear to be in the generation as James and Ellen.

What did I find? Children of Patrick Hurst and Ellen Corcoran, all born in the SAME TOWN as Ellen Hurst & John Rice's kids. See below:

1) Mary Hurst bap 15 Aug 1858 Islandeady RC Parish, Co. Mayo; sponsors Malachy and Sabina Corcoran.

2) Honor Hurst bap 1 Jan 1860 Islandeady RC Parish, Co. Mayo; sponsors Dominick Corcoran and Catherine O'Donal.

3) Henry Hurst b. 16 Feb 1864 in Derrycooraune, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo
-Henry Hurst bap. 21 Feb 1864 in Islandeady RC Parish; sponsors John Ryce & Ellen Hurst.

4) James Hurst b. 25 Feb 1866 in Derracooran, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo to parents Patrick Hurst and Ellen Corcoran.
-James bap. 1 Mar 1866 in Islandeady RC Parish, Co. Mayo; sponsors Luke and Ellen Corcoran.

5) Sarah Hurst b. 20 Aug 1868 Derrocooran, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo.
-Saragh Hurst bap 15 Aug 1868 Islandeady RC Parish (res. Derecorane); sponsors Malachy and Saragh Corcoran

6) Ellen Hurst b. 30 Oct 1870 Deracoorane, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo.
-Eleanor Hurst bap 24 Oct 1870 Islandeady RC Parish (res. Derrycooran) parents Patrick Hurst and Maria [anglicized? middlename?] Corcoran; sponsors John Browne and Maria Browne.

7) Catherine Hurst b. 8 Jul 1876 Derrycorrain, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo.

Here's one that I'm pretty sure fits, but the mother's name is off... Ellen was referred to as Maria in the parish record for one other kid, so maybe this is hers, too:
Michael Hurst bap 6 Jan 1862 at Islandeady RC Parish; parents Patrick Hurst & Mary Hurst; Sponsors Dominick O'Donnell and Sabina Rodgers.

If that is him, it would fit with the Michael Hurst above who is related to Harry Hurst who is buried in Madison, WI.

Deaths came, too:

Mary Hurst, res. Derrycooraun d. 16 Mar 1865, age 7 years daughter of Patrick Hurst and his wife, Ellen (reported the death). Civil Rec.


All told, it seems that the Michael and James who are the father and uncle of Harry Hurst, seem to have come from the same area as Ellen Hurst Rice and possibly James Hurst, in Islandeady district. As I emphasized above, Ellen Hurst and John Rice were sponsors of one of Patrick's son Henry. Does this absolutely mean Ellen and Patrick were siblings? No.. but being from the same tiny town, it just might mean they are. I have to find birth and marriage recs for Ellen and Patrick Hurst to confirm who their parents were.

Hopefully I can find the right archiv to get that info from!

Tuesday, February 24, 2015

Hursts from Co. Mayo?

I'm using this blog as a "scribble pad" tonight for some note-taking and to organize my thoughts. I've been focused lately on my brick walls. Lately, I have been doing some digging into some records on rootsireland.ie which is a site that has some, but not all records, for Ireland. I wanted to put what I've found together here, and hopefully it'll lead to further info down the road. The person of emphasis for this post is James Hurst.

Quick recap of known facts about James Hurst:
B. 1 Sept 1832 in County Mayo (census gives a range of years between 1832-1840, but this is the birth date given on his death record).
Immigrated: ca. 1862 according to census (haven't found a manifest to support, yet)
Parents: Michael Hurst & Catherine O'Neill
Possible other relatives? I've found no evidence of siblings of his having come with him to the U.S., or at least not to Dane Co., Wisconsin. I've been told also that his parents lived and died in Ireland. However, the 1880 census lists two nieces living with him, both having been born in Ireland. Mary, born ca. 1859 and Bridget born ca. 1864.

Something interesting I've noticed naming patterns. There are many versions of this but the most common convention I've found is:

Sons 
1st son was named after the father's father 
2nd son was named after the mother's father 
3rd son was named after the father 
4th son was named after the father's eldest brother 
5th son was named after the mother's eldest brother

Daughters 
1st daughter was named after the mother's mother 
2nd daughter was named after the father's mother 
3rd daughter was named after the mother 
4th daughter was named after the mother's eldest sister
5th daughter was named after the father's eldest sister

(source: http://www.igp-web.com/cork/Naming.html)

If I compare this to the kids of James Hurst and his wife, Mary Ann Walsh, I see some sort of pattern:
Children, in order of birth:
1) Catherine Ann Hurst (presumably named after James' mom, Catherine O'Neill)
2) Bridget Ann Hurst (named after Mary Ann's mom, Bridget Welsch)
3) Ellen Maria Hurst (??? see below...; Maria possibly naming her after mother Mary Ann Walsh)
4) Adeline Mary Hurst (?? Ellen died as a baby before Adeline was born; perhaps Mary again for her mother?)
5) Ella Monica Hurst (??)
6) Michael John Hurst (presumably named after both of their fathers, Michael Hurst and John Walsh)
7) Henry Leo Patrick Hurst (??)
8) James Sylvester Hurst (named for his father, James)
9) Thomas Vincent Hurst (??)
10) Joseph Parker Hurst (??)

The downfall of this formula is I do not have a confirmed list of all siblings of Mary Ann Walsh nor of James Hurst. I do, however, know that James likely had a sister who married a man by the name of Rice. Looking at the "pattern" compared to the actual known names, there seems to be somewhat of a pattern but backwards in a way as far as which parent's father's name was given to a child first. The third of each gender does appear to be named after the parent of the corresponding gender.  Beyond that there are a bunch of names that look unfamiliar- likely because of lack of info on siblings.

So, I took to the records. As I mentioned, the records are incomplete.. it seems that for most areas of Co. Mayo, the earliest records either start in 1840 or 1864 (of those that are online- I am not sure, but hoping that older records still exist somewhere). I thought, though, that maybe by that time period, there might be a record of deaths for either of Jameses parents, considering they both supposedly stayed in Ireland and died there.

I found an interesting death rec for a Catherine Hurst d. 17 Feb 1881 in Druminahaha, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo. She is listed as a widow, aged 68, and the informant is the "householder" named Ellen Rice, of Druminahaha. Hmm.. Hurst and Rice on the same record, in Co. Mayo. Could Ellen be Catherine's daughter? Maybe.. but wouldn't the "Relationship" field state daughter instead of householder? Perhaps being the householder was a more important notation. But the name Ellen.. that's the name of the third daughter of James and Mary Ann (Walsh) Hurst.. and the pattern was somewhat backward, so could Ellen by James' older sister? I can't get caught up in the "naming pattern" since that is not 100% reliable.

Is this record definitely James' mother and sister? It could be, but it could also NOT be. I don't have enough evidence.

So, I looked further to see if I could find any "Ellen Hurst" in this area, marrying a man by the name of Rice. I didn't find a marriage record. But, I found a lot of birth and baptismal records for children of a John Rice/Ryce and his wife Elen/Ellen HURST, in Islandeady. Importantly, they have two kids specifically who might be matches for the nieces listed as living with James Hurst in 1880 in Wisconsin. Here are, in order, the births/baptisms I found, for kids born to John Rice and Ellen Hurst (all the same unless otherwise noted):


1) James Ryce bap 8 Aug 1858 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors Peter Gavin and Mary O'Neal

2) **Mary Ryce bap. 4 Sep 1859 Islandeady RC Parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors Owen Lawless & Barbara Flyn [sic]

3) Bridget Rice bap. 23 Nov 1861 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors James Hurst and Mary McNealy

3) **Bridget Rice bap. 28 Nov 1862 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors Patrick Hurst and Cecelia Stephens

4) Catherine Rice b. 12 Feb 1865 Derrycooraun, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo

5) Ellen Rice b. 27 May 1867 Driminaha, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo

6) Honor Rice (female) b. 4 Sept 1869 Driminaha, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo
-(same person) Honor Rice b. 5 Sept 1869 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo (address Derecourane); sponsors Edward Gillen & Bridget Mulloy

7) Michael Rice b. 2 Nov 1871 Driminaha, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo
-(same person) Michael Rice bap. 24 Oct 1871 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo (address Derecoraun); sponsors Michael Gibbons & Catherine O'Neal

8) Anne Rice b. 9 Dec 1873 Driminaha, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo

9) John Rice b. 31 Dec 1875 Driminahaha, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo parents John Rice and Ellen Hart [possibly a transcription error- address & other info match).
-(same person, presumably dates mixed up?) John Rice bap. 17 Dec 1875 Islandeady RC parish, Co.
Mayo; parents John Ryce & Ellen Hurst; sponsors Thomas Ryce & Bridget Mylott
-(a record for this same birth, found on familysearch.org lists John Rice's birthplace as Drimenahaha)

10) Patrick Rice b. 10 Jun 1878 Derrycowran, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo. (only found this one on familysearch.org)

11) Margaret Rice b. 26 Aug 1880 Driminahaha, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo. (only found this one on Familysearch.org)


Specific point: Common places mentioned: Derrycooraun, Derrycourane, and Drumminahaha are all within (according to a map) a quarter mile or less of one another. They are slightly north of the town of Islandeady.

Important highlights:

1) A sponsor named James Hurst in 1861 and no other year. My James Hurst supposedly immigrated around 1862.

2) The two girls of the same age (Mary, b. 1859) and similar age (Bridget, b. 1862) as the girls listed as nieces of James Hurst in 1880 in Wisconsin

3) The family names of the sponsors- quite a few Rices, several O'Neals and a couple of Hursts (Patrick and James).

4) The name Peter Gavin. My grandmother (whose great-grandfather is James Hurst) matched, on DNA testing, within ~4th cousin range of a woman whose great-great-grandfather's name was Richard Gavin of the Castlebar, Co. Mayo area. Richard's wife's name is Eleanor Rice. Richard was baptised in 1861 in... Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, and his parents were Thomas Gavin and Cecily Cauly; sponsors James Ryce and Mary Gavin. Thomas and Cecily were married 31 Jan 1857 in Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors James Ryce and Barbara Scoot.

So, is there some sort of tie between this James Ryce and John Ryce/Rice? Is there a tie between these Gavins, Peter and Thomas, and my Hursts? Is Ellen Hurst above the sister of my James Hurst? I don't have enough info to prove this yet but it's looking pretty promising.

An addendum:

Griffiths Valuation for Derrycooraun, Islandeady Parish, shows many of these names of those on the baptismal records, living close together:





Thomas, John, and Austin Gavin; Mylott, Lawless, Gibbons, Malley (Mulloy), James Rice, John Rice





I can't quite add everything to my genealogy because it's not all connected yet, so I'm going to add more records here as I find them:
Name:Ellen Gavin
Event Date:25 Aug 1945
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Gender:Female
Age:71
Birth Year (Estimated):1874
Birth Date:12 May 1874
Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Father's Name:John Rice
Father's Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Mother's Name:Ellen Hurst
Mother's Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Occupation:housework
Residence Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Spouse's Name:Richard Gavin
Burial Date:29 Aug 1945
Burial Place:Proviso Township, Cook, Illinois
Cemetery:Mt. Carmel
Digital Folder Number: 4152319 , Image Number: 1454 , GS Film number: 1983367 , Reference ID: rn 24257

(for Ellen, all census records indicate she was born ca. 1868-1869. Her death rec is the only one that mentions 1874. She therefore fits with the Ellen mentioned at the top as being born in Druminahaha).
Find a grave for Ellen:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=107219630&ref=acom


I found this, not sure if this is the right Mary or not?

Name:Mary Boyd
Event Type:Death
Event Date:12 Sep 1913
Event Place:, Cook, Illinois, United States
Address:1905 Burling St.
Gender:Female
Age:51
Marital Status:Married
Ethnicity:American
Race:White
Occupation:Housewife
Birth Date:18 Dec 1861
Birthplace:Ireland
Burial Date:14 Sep 1913
Cemetery:St. Boniface
Father's Name:John Rice
Father's Birthplace:Ireland
Mother's Name:Ellen Hurst
Mother's Birthplace:Ireland
Record Number:925
Source Reference:cn 25503
GS Film Number: 1287710 , Digital Folder Number: 004005103 , Image Number: 00930


James Hurst possible nephew of my James Hurst.
Name:James Hurst
Event Date:30 Dec 1923
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Gender:Male
Age:55
Birth Year (Estimated):1868
Birth Date:01 Mar 1868
Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Father's Name:Patrick Hurst
Father's Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Mother's Name:Ellen Corcoran
Mother's Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Residence Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Spouse's Name:Rose Dunn Hurst
Burial Date:04 Jan 1924
Cemetery:Mt. Carmel
Digital Folder Number: 4205897 , Image Number: 1049 , GS Film number: 1877424 , Reference ID: rn 33464


Michael Hurst possible nephew of my James Hurst
Name:Michael Hurst
Event Date:02 Jan 1929
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Gender:Male
Father's Name:Patrick Hurst
Mother's Name:Ellen Garcian
Spouse's Name:Mary Ruan
Digital Folder Number: 4153211 , Image Number: 267 , GS Film number: 1892231

Church recs from Holy Name Cathedral, State St., Chicago, Illinois.
Name:Michael Hurst
Event Type:Marriage
Event Date:14 Feb 1893
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois, United States
Gender:Male
Spouse's Name:Mary Ruane
Spouse's Gender:Female
GS Film Number: 001578586 , Digital Folder Number: 004284435 , Image Number: 00430



Name:Richard Gavin
Event Type:Marriage
Event Date:25 Jun 1890
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois, United States
Gender:Male
Spouse's Name:Ellen Rice
Spouse's Gender:Female
GS Film Number: 001578586 , Digital Folder Number: 004284435 , Image Number: 00398 


Naturalization record of Michael Hurst, with a witness of James Ryce: