Saturday, February 28, 2015

Hursts from Mayo Part II

It seems that there is in fact a connection between the names I mentioned in my last post... It seems certain that my DNA match's ancestor descends from John Rice and Ellen Hurst. All we need to do is confirm, via definite records, that Ellen Hurst was the sister to my James Hurst. It's almost certainly true, and if so, I've located where the Hursts lived in Ireland and can proceed with locating more records on my ancestors there. PROBABLY. Fingers crossed. I've written to an archive to hopefully receive a birth or baptismal record for James to confirm the location, and from there I'll be able to confirm this whole theory.

Which begs the question. What other siblings did Ellen and James have? (if they are siblings). A godparent of one of Ellen's children is Patrick Hurst. Could this be another sibling?

I have been photographing Resurrection Cemetery in Madison as part of an ongoing project of mine to get everyone with a photo loaded into find-a-grave. Part of my motivation was that there are a lot of Irish and German immigrants buried in the cemetery, many with common names to some of my families, but which I haven't confirmed yet. I hoped that by photographing these sections I might find new relatives.

One interesting grave that I found last year as that of a Harry Hurst ( Hurst is not a common last name. At least, not in Madison, Wisconsin. Therefore I looked into it to see if I could find any possible common ancestry with my James Hurst. Here's a summary of the info I found last year while looking into records:

"Harry and Mary (Betty) had two daughters, Joan and Sheila (m. Merrill Owen). Harry's parents were Michael Hurst (b. 1861 Ireland) and Mary Ruane (b. 1871 Ireland). They were married 14 Feb 1893 in Chicago (witnessed by a James Hurst and a Katie [Keena?]. Michael died 2 Jan 1929 in Chicago, and his death rec lists parents as Patrick Hurst and Ellen Corcoran. Michael appears to have had a brother, James Hurst. Per his death record, James was b. 1 Mar 1868 in Co. Mayo, Ireland to Patrick Hurst and Ellen Corcoran. He died 30 Dec 1923 in Chicago. His wife was Rose Dunn and he was buried here."

Michael.. James... Patrick. Hmm familiar names. And seemingly with a connection to County Mayo. Last year when I wrote that all out, I didn't have access to because it was not a subscription site yet (it used to be pay-per-record). I just decided to dig a little more in this, since the Patrick Hurst listed as the father of Michael b. 1861 and James b. 1868 would appear to be in the generation as James and Ellen.

What did I find? Children of Patrick Hurst and Ellen Corcoran, all born in the SAME TOWN as Ellen Hurst & John Rice's kids. See below:

1) Mary Hurst bap 15 Aug 1858 Islandeady RC Parish, Co. Mayo; sponsors Malachy and Sabina Corcoran.

2) Honor Hurst bap 1 Jan 1860 Islandeady RC Parish, Co. Mayo; sponsors Dominick Corcoran and Catherine O'Donal.

3) Henry Hurst b. 16 Feb 1864 in Derrycooraune, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo
-Henry Hurst bap. 21 Feb 1864 in Islandeady RC Parish; sponsors John Ryce & Ellen Hurst.

4) James Hurst b. 25 Feb 1866 in Derracooran, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo to parents Patrick Hurst and Ellen Corcoran.
-James bap. 1 Mar 1866 in Islandeady RC Parish, Co. Mayo; sponsors Luke and Ellen Corcoran.

5) Sarah Hurst b. 20 Aug 1868 Derrocooran, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo.
-Saragh Hurst bap 15 Aug 1868 Islandeady RC Parish (res. Derecorane); sponsors Malachy and Saragh Corcoran

6) Ellen Hurst b. 30 Oct 1870 Deracoorane, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo.
-Eleanor Hurst bap 24 Oct 1870 Islandeady RC Parish (res. Derrycooran) parents Patrick Hurst and Maria [anglicized? middlename?] Corcoran; sponsors John Browne and Maria Browne.

7) Catherine Hurst b. 8 Jul 1876 Derrycorrain, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo.

Here's one that I'm pretty sure fits, but the mother's name is off... Ellen was referred to as Maria in the parish record for one other kid, so maybe this is hers, too:
Michael Hurst bap 6 Jan 1862 at Islandeady RC Parish; parents Patrick Hurst & Mary Hurst; Sponsors Dominick O'Donnell and Sabina Rodgers.

If that is him, it would fit with the Michael Hurst above who is related to Harry Hurst who is buried in Madison, WI.

Deaths came, too:

Mary Hurst, res. Derrycooraun d. 16 Mar 1865, age 7 years daughter of Patrick Hurst and his wife, Ellen (reported the death). Civil Rec.

All told, it seems that the Michael and James who are the father and uncle of Harry Hurst, seem to have come from the same area as Ellen Hurst Rice and possibly James Hurst, in Islandeady district. As I emphasized above, Ellen Hurst and John Rice were sponsors of one of Patrick's son Henry. Does this absolutely mean Ellen and Patrick were siblings? No.. but being from the same tiny town, it just might mean they are. I have to find birth and marriage recs for Ellen and Patrick Hurst to confirm who their parents were.

Hopefully I can find the right archiv to get that info from!

Tuesday, February 24, 2015

Hursts from Co. Mayo?

I'm using this blog as a "scribble pad" tonight for some note-taking and to organize my thoughts. I've been focused lately on my brick walls. Lately, I have been doing some digging into some records on which is a site that has some, but not all records, for Ireland. I wanted to put what I've found together here, and hopefully it'll lead to further info down the road. The person of emphasis for this post is James Hurst.

Quick recap of known facts about James Hurst:
B. 1 Sept 1832 in County Mayo (census gives a range of years between 1832-1840, but this is the birth date given on his death record).
Immigrated: ca. 1862 according to census (haven't found a manifest to support, yet)
Parents: Michael Hurst & Catherine O'Neill
Possible other relatives? I've found no evidence of siblings of his having come with him to the U.S., or at least not to Dane Co., Wisconsin. I've been told also that his parents lived and died in Ireland. However, the 1880 census lists two nieces living with him, both having been born in Ireland. Mary, born ca. 1859 and Bridget born ca. 1864.

Something interesting I've noticed naming patterns. There are many versions of this but the most common convention I've found is:

1st son was named after the father's father 
2nd son was named after the mother's father 
3rd son was named after the father 
4th son was named after the father's eldest brother 
5th son was named after the mother's eldest brother

1st daughter was named after the mother's mother 
2nd daughter was named after the father's mother 
3rd daughter was named after the mother 
4th daughter was named after the mother's eldest sister
5th daughter was named after the father's eldest sister


If I compare this to the kids of James Hurst and his wife, Mary Ann Walsh, I see some sort of pattern:
Children, in order of birth:
1) Catherine Ann Hurst (presumably named after James' mom, Catherine O'Neill)
2) Bridget Ann Hurst (named after Mary Ann's mom, Bridget Welsch)
3) Ellen Maria Hurst (??? see below...; Maria possibly naming her after mother Mary Ann Walsh)
4) Adeline Mary Hurst (?? Ellen died as a baby before Adeline was born; perhaps Mary again for her mother?)
5) Ella Monica Hurst (??)
6) Michael John Hurst (presumably named after both of their fathers, Michael Hurst and John Walsh)
7) Henry Leo Patrick Hurst (??)
8) James Sylvester Hurst (named for his father, James)
9) Thomas Vincent Hurst (??)
10) Joseph Parker Hurst (??)

The downfall of this formula is I do not have a confirmed list of all siblings of Mary Ann Walsh nor of James Hurst. I do, however, know that James likely had a sister who married a man by the name of Rice. Looking at the "pattern" compared to the actual known names, there seems to be somewhat of a pattern but backwards in a way as far as which parent's father's name was given to a child first. The third of each gender does appear to be named after the parent of the corresponding gender.  Beyond that there are a bunch of names that look unfamiliar- likely because of lack of info on siblings.

So, I took to the records. As I mentioned, the records are incomplete.. it seems that for most areas of Co. Mayo, the earliest records either start in 1840 or 1864 (of those that are online- I am not sure, but hoping that older records still exist somewhere). I thought, though, that maybe by that time period, there might be a record of deaths for either of Jameses parents, considering they both supposedly stayed in Ireland and died there.

I found an interesting death rec for a Catherine Hurst d. 17 Feb 1881 in Druminahaha, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo. She is listed as a widow, aged 68, and the informant is the "householder" named Ellen Rice, of Druminahaha. Hmm.. Hurst and Rice on the same record, in Co. Mayo. Could Ellen be Catherine's daughter? Maybe.. but wouldn't the "Relationship" field state daughter instead of householder? Perhaps being the householder was a more important notation. But the name Ellen.. that's the name of the third daughter of James and Mary Ann (Walsh) Hurst.. and the pattern was somewhat backward, so could Ellen by James' older sister? I can't get caught up in the "naming pattern" since that is not 100% reliable.

Is this record definitely James' mother and sister? It could be, but it could also NOT be. I don't have enough evidence.

So, I looked further to see if I could find any "Ellen Hurst" in this area, marrying a man by the name of Rice. I didn't find a marriage record. But, I found a lot of birth and baptismal records for children of a John Rice/Ryce and his wife Elen/Ellen HURST, in Islandeady. Importantly, they have two kids specifically who might be matches for the nieces listed as living with James Hurst in 1880 in Wisconsin. Here are, in order, the births/baptisms I found, for kids born to John Rice and Ellen Hurst (all the same unless otherwise noted):

1) James Ryce bap 8 Aug 1858 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors Peter Gavin and Mary O'Neal

2) **Mary Ryce bap. 4 Sep 1859 Islandeady RC Parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors Owen Lawless & Barbara Flyn [sic]

3) Bridget Rice bap. 23 Nov 1861 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors James Hurst and Mary McNealy

3) **Bridget Rice bap. 28 Nov 1862 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors Patrick Hurst and Cecelia Stephens

4) Catherine Rice b. 12 Feb 1865 Derrycooraun, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo

5) Ellen Rice b. 27 May 1867 Driminaha, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo

6) Honor Rice (female) b. 4 Sept 1869 Driminaha, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo
-(same person) Honor Rice b. 5 Sept 1869 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo (address Derecourane); sponsors Edward Gillen & Bridget Mulloy

7) Michael Rice b. 2 Nov 1871 Driminaha, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo
-(same person) Michael Rice bap. 24 Oct 1871 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo (address Derecoraun); sponsors Michael Gibbons & Catherine O'Neal

8) Anne Rice b. 9 Dec 1873 Driminaha, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo

9) John Rice b. 31 Dec 1875 Driminahaha, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo parents John Rice and Ellen Hart [possibly a transcription error- address & other info match).
-(same person, presumably dates mixed up?) John Rice bap. 17 Dec 1875 Islandeady RC parish, Co.
Mayo; parents John Ryce & Ellen Hurst; sponsors Thomas Ryce & Bridget Mylott
-(a record for this same birth, found on lists John Rice's birthplace as Drimenahaha)

10) Patrick Rice b. 10 Jun 1878 Derrycowran, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo. (only found this one on

11) Margaret Rice b. 26 Aug 1880 Driminahaha, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo. (only found this one on

Specific point: Common places mentioned: Derrycooraun, Derrycourane, and Drumminahaha are all within (according to a map) a quarter mile or less of one another. They are slightly north of the town of Islandeady.

Important highlights:

1) A sponsor named James Hurst in 1861 and no other year. My James Hurst supposedly immigrated around 1862.

2) The two girls of the same age (Mary, b. 1859) and similar age (Bridget, b. 1862) as the girls listed as nieces of James Hurst in 1880 in Wisconsin

3) The family names of the sponsors- quite a few Rices, several O'Neals and a couple of Hursts (Patrick and James).

4) The name Peter Gavin. My grandmother (whose great-grandfather is James Hurst) matched, on DNA testing, within ~4th cousin range of a woman whose great-great-grandfather's name was Richard Gavin of the Castlebar, Co. Mayo area. Richard's wife's name is Eleanor Rice. Richard was baptised in 1861 in... Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, and his parents were Thomas Gavin and Cecily Cauly; sponsors James Ryce and Mary Gavin. Thomas and Cecily were married 31 Jan 1857 in Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors James Ryce and Barbara Scoot.

So, is there some sort of tie between this James Ryce and John Ryce/Rice? Is there a tie between these Gavins, Peter and Thomas, and my Hursts? Is Ellen Hurst above the sister of my James Hurst? I don't have enough info to prove this yet but it's looking pretty promising.

An addendum:

Griffiths Valuation for Derrycooraun, Islandeady Parish, shows many of these names of those on the baptismal records, living close together:

Thomas, John, and Austin Gavin; Mylott, Lawless, Gibbons, Malley (Mulloy), James Rice, John Rice

I can't quite add everything to my genealogy because it's not all connected yet, so I'm going to add more records here as I find them:
Name:Ellen Gavin
Event Date:25 Aug 1945
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Birth Year (Estimated):1874
Birth Date:12 May 1874
Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Father's Name:John Rice
Father's Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Mother's Name:Ellen Hurst
Mother's Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Residence Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Spouse's Name:Richard Gavin
Burial Date:29 Aug 1945
Burial Place:Proviso Township, Cook, Illinois
Cemetery:Mt. Carmel
Digital Folder Number: 4152319 , Image Number: 1454 , GS Film number: 1983367 , Reference ID: rn 24257

(for Ellen, all census records indicate she was born ca. 1868-1869. Her death rec is the only one that mentions 1874. She therefore fits with the Ellen mentioned at the top as being born in Druminahaha).
Find a grave for Ellen:

I found this, not sure if this is the right Mary or not?

Name:Mary Boyd
Event Type:Death
Event Date:12 Sep 1913
Event Place:, Cook, Illinois, United States
Address:1905 Burling St.
Marital Status:Married
Birth Date:18 Dec 1861
Burial Date:14 Sep 1913
Cemetery:St. Boniface
Father's Name:John Rice
Father's Birthplace:Ireland
Mother's Name:Ellen Hurst
Mother's Birthplace:Ireland
Record Number:925
Source Reference:cn 25503
GS Film Number: 1287710 , Digital Folder Number: 004005103 , Image Number: 00930

James Hurst possible nephew of my James Hurst.
Name:James Hurst
Event Date:30 Dec 1923
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Birth Year (Estimated):1868
Birth Date:01 Mar 1868
Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Father's Name:Patrick Hurst
Father's Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Mother's Name:Ellen Corcoran
Mother's Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Residence Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Spouse's Name:Rose Dunn Hurst
Burial Date:04 Jan 1924
Cemetery:Mt. Carmel
Digital Folder Number: 4205897 , Image Number: 1049 , GS Film number: 1877424 , Reference ID: rn 33464

Michael Hurst possible nephew of my James Hurst
Name:Michael Hurst
Event Date:02 Jan 1929
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Father's Name:Patrick Hurst
Mother's Name:Ellen Garcian
Spouse's Name:Mary Ruan
Digital Folder Number: 4153211 , Image Number: 267 , GS Film number: 1892231

Church recs from Holy Name Cathedral, State St., Chicago, Illinois.
Name:Michael Hurst
Event Type:Marriage
Event Date:14 Feb 1893
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois, United States
Spouse's Name:Mary Ruane
Spouse's Gender:Female
GS Film Number: 001578586 , Digital Folder Number: 004284435 , Image Number: 00430

Name:Richard Gavin
Event Type:Marriage
Event Date:25 Jun 1890
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois, United States
Spouse's Name:Ellen Rice
Spouse's Gender:Female
GS Film Number: 001578586 , Digital Folder Number: 004284435 , Image Number: 00398 

Naturalization record of Michael Hurst, with a witness of James Ryce: