Showing posts with label Walsh. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Walsh. Show all posts

Thursday, January 21, 2016

DNA testing and Germans Records

Hello all,

Apologies for neglecting this page.. sometimes my life and research are so busy that I can't find the spare time to write here. 2015 was a busy year and also ended in some sad times for my family, as for the first time I lost some close family members, my grandfather Robert Mayville, and my young cousin Sydney Kratochwill. As a genealogist it's a strange thing to go through. I have been working hard to preserve my family's history and trying to document the memories and experiences of my remaining grandparents as best as I can. 

As far as my genealogical research in 2015, it all boiled down to two main things, DNA testing and German records!

I have been attempting to use DNA testing to try to break down some brick walls. I first tested my dad, in an attempt to find out more about our Paternal line, the Walter/Walters/Walther family. Our furthest back paternal ancestor is Simon Walter, who was supposedly born 10 Apr 1810 in "Neubeuren bei Wiesenfeld" and is a complete brick wall for me. No idea where that place is, as there doesn't seem to be a real place with that combination of place names, and I have no idea who his parents were.

Based on my grandpa's autosomal test results, which had quite a few matches with mostly English ancestry, I had suspected that perhaps Simon might not be from Germany as he had said he was. He was over 40 when he came to the U.S. and married Margaretha Kaemmlein, so I wondered if he had something to hide, if he perhaps had another family elsewhere. My grandpa's ancestors all immigrated immediately from Germany, so I had no other explanation for the matches with solely English ancestry.

So, my dad agreed to do a Y-DNA test, which traces only the direct male line. I did not get answers that I expected to get, and unluckily, no close matches to help solve my mystery... The results mention that my dad has the haplogroup 1-P37 (I2a). Interestingly this haplogroup is more common in eastern and southeastern Europe, and rare in Germany, but it is one that can occasionally be seen in Germany. We don't have any close matches but have some further away, with a genetic distance of 6 or more, which is not beneficial for my research. The matches have most distant ancestors from Poland, Ukraine, and Greece to name a few. 


I next wanted to try my luck with the Diebold brick wall. I asked my cousin to help me out, who is a direct male Diebold. He agreed and took the Y-DNA test for me. Our brick wall ancestor is Johann Diebold b. 18 Jul 1828, supposedly in "Elsass-Zabern." His parents were supposedly named, Joseph and Margaret Diebold (no maiden name given), but that's not much to go off of. Records for Bas-Rhin are online, but are not indexed. So, without an exact town name it's been impossible to find him.

The test results came back and from it we learned that the Diebolds have a haplogroup of E-L117. This haplogroup is most common among northern Africans but is also present in some Europeans, indicating a possible direct male ancestor who came to Europe from Africa around 10,000 years ago (or sooner, but for us that will be nearly impossible to determine). We unfortunately have NO matches at this time, so that also doesn't help in my quest right now.. so, for now I wait patiently and hope that someone will take the test.


On the Mayville Y-DNA front we have worked with the "French Heritage DNA Project" to map the genome of the Miville line. We are also hoping to find some Mieville/Miville descendants who still live in Switzerland today, in hopes that we can confirm where our immigrant ancestor, Pierre Miville, was from. We had a new, close match pop up earlier this week so we are excited to work out the connection with this new match.


Additionally, I am working on recruiting male Walsh descendants to take the Y-DNA test at FTDNA.com, too. We may be able to convince one person who is known to descend from my Walsh line, and I am hoping to find a descendant of Martin Walsh (b. 1837) to take the Y-DNA test, also, as he is supposed to be a half brother of my ancestor John Walsh (b. 1810). I am hoping to find other Walsh descendants to take the autosomal DNA test.. it would be nice to get others who descend from the many Walshes who were in Dane Co., in the mid-to-late nineteenth century, to take the autosomal test in hopes of connecting our lines together and perhaps finding the place of origin for the Walshes in Ireland. 

It would be nice to find a male Tice descendant to take a Y-DNA test, too.



I also managed to take a test at 23andMe recently. I previously had autosomal kits at Ancestry and FTDNA, but had not yet tested with 23andMe, so now I am in all three major databases, plus gedmatch.com (free comparison site). Below, for fun, are the ethnicity estimates provided by each company. On left is Ancestry's estimate, middle is 23andMe, and on the right is FTDNA. It's interesting to see how different their algorithms are.


(Click to view the full image)


My other big project of 2015 was to try to track down as many records or family books for the German towns my ancestors lived in, as I could. I spent quite a lot of time doing this, especially in locating records for Duengenheim and nearby towns where my Hagemann, Emmerich, and other associated families were from. I made a lot of progress with this and also made some new friends from across the pond who have been immensely helpful in tracing my lineage. I owe a lot to Gerhard and Remy.

There are still a lot of records to be found and requested from the Family History Library in Salt Lake City. They have many German records on microfilm, but it is a time consuming task, so I will probably have to wait until the summer to order more microfilms. That will certainly keep me busy.

Saturday, March 21, 2015

Notes for later.. (More Irish queries)

Digging in Irish recs again. Is this Mary Rice Boyd?
1900 Census
Event Place:Precinct 41 West Town Chicago city Ward 10, Cook, Illinois, United States 
HouseholdRoleGenderAgeBirthplace
James Boyd HeadM40Ireland
Mary Boyd WifeF42Ireland
Martha Boyd DaughterF18Illinois
Mary Boyd DaughterF15Illinois
Andrew Boyd SonM12Illinois
Louisa Boyd DaughterF10Illinois
Samuel Boyd SonM7Illinois
Lilly Boyd DaughterF4Illinois


Is this a death record for James Rice's wife, Mary Donnelan?
Illinois, Cook County Deaths

Name:Mary E. Rice
Event Type:Death
Event Date:09 Jun 1904
Event Place:, Cook, Illinois, United States
Gender:Female
Age:43
Marital Status:Widowed
Ethnicity:American
Race:White
Occupation:housewife
Birth Year (Estimated):1861
Birthplace:England
Burial Date:12 Jun 1904
Cemetery:Mt Carmel
Record Number:43
Source Reference:cn 15362
GS Film Number: 1239705 , Digital Folder Number: 004004490 , Image Number: 00983



O'Neills. I have a new DNA match indicating possible relationships to O'Neills. What can I find in records?

If we recall from the Griffith's valuation down lower on this page, who is very likely may ancestor Catherine Hurst is listed next to a Dominick O'Neill. If this is my Catherine, as all evidence indicates so far, her maiden name was Catherine. My DNA match is to a descendant of Mary O'Neill who married Michael O'Malley. I have in my notes that Mary O'Neill was born in Islandeady. the O'Malleys seem to have widely inhabited Co. Mayo, but especially the area of Westport, and Mary O'Neill O'Malley and her husband Michael, as well as several of their children, came to Dane Co., Wisconsin and started the town of Westport, which is ALSO where my ancestor James Hurst settled.. aha. 

Mary O'Neill O'Malley had a son named Dominick who is tied to my Walsh/Hurst family via several documents. Dominick O'Malley. Hmm. Dominick O'Neill? So, who was the Dominick O'Neil on the 1855 Griffith's valuation of the towns in Islandeady parish? I'm finding a couple of Dominick O'Neils who had kids in the 1840s and beyond in Islandeady Parish... First is this guy, who married a Sabina Rodgers:


Name:DominickO'NeilDate of Death:25-Aug-1876
Age:78yParish / District:Islandeady district
Address:DerrycourainCounty:Co. Mayo
Status:MarriedDenomination:Civil Parish
Occupation:LANDHOLDERSex:Male
GraveyardInformant
Graveyard:Relationship:Householder
Parish:Name:Sabina O'Neil
County:Address:Derrycourain

b. about 1798? Catherine O'Neill Hurst was b. about 1813 according to her death rec.
Living in Derrycourane? Well, this sounds familiar, doesn't it?

Kids of Dominick & Sabina (Rodgers) (remember recs started around 1840 or later, so there could be earlier kids than this):


1) Catherine baptized 28 May 1844, res. "Derrycourane," Islandeady RC parish, witnesses: Daniel Rogers and CATHERINE O'Neil.

2) Dominick baptized 12 Jun 1847, res. "Deracourane," Islandeady RC parish, witnesses: not recorded.

3) Patrick O'Neal baptized 15 Feb 1853, residence not given, Islandeady RC Parish; witnesses: John RYCE & Bridget RYCE.

4) Honor O'Neil baptized 1 Dec 1854, residence not given, Islandeady RC Parish; witnesses: PATRICK HURST and ELLEN HURST.

5) Daniel O'Neal baptized 29 Mar 1861, residence not given, Islandeady RC Parish; witnesses: Edward Gillen and Bridget Molloy.

I think there are very likely other children that aren't popping up in the list above, possibly not easy to find based on the variations possible with the name "Dominick" so we may need to wait until the parish registers come out this summer to search by hand and see if any other children pop up. Though, judging from the death rec, if Dominick was really born in about 1798, he's having these kids in his 50s and 60s.. so, possibly had a first wife before this, and other kids born before the 1840 start of records.


Other Dominick O'Neils having kids baptized in Islandeady Parish:

1) Michael O'Neil son of Dominick O'Neil and Anne Stephens; baptized 27 Apr 1846, residence "Derychoran"; parish Islandeady. Witness: Michael Brady.

2) Anne O'Neil daughter of Dominick O'Neil and Anne O'Neil; baptized 19 Dec 1840, residence "Derrahoran," parish Islandeady. Witnesses: Patrick Walsh and Margaret Calaghan.

3) Dominick O'Neil son of Dominick O'Neil and Anne Hopkins; baptized 7 Jan 1844, residence not given, parish Islandeady. Witnesses: James Corcoran and Bridget Hopkins.


Saturday, March 7, 2015

Walsh family from Galway?

In addition to my recent search for my Hurst ancestors from County Mayo, I've also been on the hunt for my Walsh ancestors; another brick wall of mine.

My ancestor Mary Ann Walsh was supposedly born 24 Oct 1848 in "Galway," Ireland. I've never known if this meant the county or the city. Her parents were John (1811-1878) and Bridget (Feb 1809-12 April 1895). I have not been able to find anything about these guys, including Bridget's maiden name. We have a picture of Bridget and I have copies of her probate file, but I haven't found anything useful from them. According to a cousin via Mary Ann's sister Bridget (Walsh) Busby, Bridget's maiden name was also Walsh but she supposedly wasn't related in any way to her husband John Walsh. According to this same source, Bridget killed an English soldier who was burning her father's hands because he wouldn't tell the soldier where his "pots of gold" were (this is directly from her letter). Because of this, Bridget had to flee and the letter continues, stating that Mary Ann was born at sea rather than born in Ireland. I've never heard this story before and neither had my grandma, so we are both really curious as to the veracity of the story. I have no idea how to prove it, though. I've always been told that the Walshes immigrated when Mary Ann was six months old, but I've never found a ship manifest for them, yet.

I thought I'd look on rootsireland.ie for her and did not have any luck finding either Mary Ann nor her parents. I searched for any children born to parents named John Walsh and Bridget (no maiden name specified). I found a lot of them in Co. Galway, and also expanded my search to Co. Mayo, just in case. Nothing I found matches what I know about the make up of my Walsh family.

I've assumed that John and Bridget, based on their ages, were likely married in the early 1830s. If that's the case my information is very lacking on their children, as I only have four confirmed children, those being:
1) Thomas Welch b. ~1840 in Ireland; married Hannah O'Malley in Wisconsin; d. 17 Nov 1880.
2) Judy Walsh b ~1845 in Ireland; appears only on the 1860 census and listed as "deaf & dumb." I've never found anything else about her.
3) Mary Ann Walsh b. 24 Oct 1848 in Ireland? married James Hurst; d. 24 Dec 1925
4) Anna Rachel Walsh b. 29 Sep 1850 Dane Co., WI; married Thomas F. Ryan; d. 20 Mar 1932
5) Bridget Walsh b. 10 Dec 1854 Dane Co., WI; married William A. Busby; d. 23 Jun 1932

I didn't find any records matching this family profile for the children b. in Ireland; but it could just be that there are no records online yet for the parish they were born in. I thought I would post what I did find in case it becomes relevant later:


CO. Galway
Children of John Walsh and Bridget Kenny of Sorreltown (Parish Dunmore, Co. Galway)
-Martin Walsh bap. 16 Nov 1836
Sponsor(s): Martin Glynn & Mary Duane

-Mary Walsh bap. 30 Sep 1838
Sponsor(s): Michael Scarry & Mary Burke

-Michael Walsh bap. 20 Sep 1841
Sponsor(s): Thomas and Margaret Glennon

-Thomas Walsh bap. 20 Dec 1844
Sponsor(s): Mary Kenny

-Bridget Walsh bap. 12 Jan 1846
Sponsor(s): Patrick and Honor Devine


Children of John Walsh and Bridget Walsh of Oranmore Parish, Co. Galway
-Thomas Walsh bap. 21 Nov 1842
Sponsor(s): Patrick Farrel and Bridget Tierny

-Margaret Walsh b. 14 Dec 1845; bap. 28 Dec 1845
Sponsor(s): Bridget Connell

-John Walsh bap. 29 Jun 1849
Sponsor(s): James Baley and Mary Ward


John Walsh & Bridget Walsh of Kilcummin Oughterard, County Galway
-Patrick Walsh bap. 24 Dec 1837
Sponsor(s): Samuel Maxwell & Mary Walsh

-Mary Walsh bap. 4 Feb 1845
Sponsor(s): Thomas Sullivan and Mary Rutledge


John Walsh & Bridget Fahy (cripple) of Kilcummin Oughterard, Co. Galway
-John Walsh bap. 14 Jun 1842
Sponsor(s): Martin McHoy and Mary Rall


John Walsh & Bridget Folan of Truskee West (Rahoon Parish, Co. Galway)
-unnamed Walsh bap. 11 Dec 1837 (Knockanacarragh)
Sponsor(s): Martin Folan & Honor Walsh

-Margaret Walsh bap. 1 Nov 1839 (res. Knockanacariagh)
Sponsor(s): Martin Folan and Honor Walsh

-Honor Walsh bap. 20 Oct 1846
Sponsor(s): Sabina Joyce

-Michael Walsh bap. 5 May 1850
Sponsor(s): Sabina Joyce

-Martin Walsh bap. 18 Sep 1853
Sponsor(s): Mary Hickey


John Walsh & Bridget Triston (Trisnane or Preston) of Palinee (Rahoon Parish, Co. Galway)
-Thomas Walsh bap. 19 Dec 1836
Sponsor(s): Mary Flaherty

-Owen Walsh bap. 1 Jul 1839
Sponsor(s): Patrick Preston & Bridget Kelly

-Mary Walsh bap 4 Sep 1842
Sponsor(s): Patrick Trisnane and Mary Flaherty

-John Walsh bap 1 Nov 1844
Sponsor(s): Patrick Triston & Mary Flaherty


John Walsh & Bridget Mullins of Parkavera (Rahoon Parish, Co. Galway)
-Michael Walsh bap. 17 Jul 1846
Sponsor(s): James Sweeney and Margaret Walsh


John Walsh and Bridget Kean of Liss, Parish Abbeyknockmoy, Co. Galway
-Anne Walsh, bap. 29 Apr 1846
Sponsor(s): Mary Kean


John Walsh and Bridget Joyce of Turlagh, Parish Rosmuc, Co. Galway
-Anne Walsh bap. 23 May 1846
Sponsor(s): Colman Conry and Catherine Thornton

-Honor Walsh bap. 6 Aug 1850
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Anna Walsh

-Colman Walsh bap. 26 Jun 1855
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Anna Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget Kilroy of Parish Woodford, Co. Galway
-Catherine Walsh bap. 12 Apr 1837
Sponsor(s): Patrick Conry & Margaret Conry

-Bridget Walsh bap. 5 Nov 1841
Sponsor(s): Patrick Banfield & Bridget Gleeson


John Walsh & Bridget Hennessy of Parish Woodford, Co. Galway
-John Walsh bap. 12 Mar 1838
Sponsor(s): Thomas Gaffy & Maria Hennessy


John Walsh & Bridget Duggan of Parish Moycullen, Co. Galway
-Bridget Walsh
Sponsor(s): Thomas Walsh & Catherine Melia


John Walsh & Bridget Colmer of Parish Donaghpatrick, Co. Galway
-Bartholomew Walsh bap. 26 Jun 1853
Sponsor(s): John Kane & Mary Kane

John Walsh & Bridget Hession of Tuam Parish, Co. Galway
-Mary Walsh bap. 24 Aug 1854
Sponsor(s): John G. King & Judith Noone

John Walsh & Bridget Dempsey of Killeenadeema Parish, Co. Galway
-Mary Walshe b. 3 May 1836; bap. 5 May 1836
Sponsor(s): Thomas Mitchell and Mary Connelly


Co. Mayo

John Walsh & Bridget Brennan of Balanamorogue, Parish Islandeady
-Patrick Walsh bap 7 Sep 1839
Sponsor(s): Patrick Brennan and Bridget Brennan

-Bridget Walsh bap. 11 May 1845
Sponsor(s): Thomas Walsh & Mary McGreal


John Walsh & Bridget Swords of Derychase, Parish Islandeady
-Ellen Walsh bap. 10 Feb 1846
Sponsor(s): Anthony Swords


John Walsh & Bridget Brannelly of Islandeady Parish
-Mary Walsh bap 15 Dec 1841
Sponsor(s): Mary Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget Flynn of Aglish Parish
-Thomas Walsh bap 20 Feb 1845
sponsors John Flynn and Bridget Walsh.


John Walsh & Bridget Ludden of Aglish Parish
-Michael Walsh b. 1 May 1841
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh

-Patrick Walsh bap. 16 Mar 1845
Sponsor(s): Michael Walsh & Winifred Lavell

-Catherine Walsh bap 10 May 1847
Sponsor(s): Anthony Walsh and Judith Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget Trembleton of Aglish Parish
-Michael Walsh bap 3 Sept 1844
Sponsor(s): James MacGuire and Catherine Fitzmorris


John Walsh & Bridget Jordan of Aglish Parish
-Mary Walsh BORN 2 Dec 1842
Sponsor(s): Anthony Walsh and Margaret Malley


John Walsh & Bridget Canton of Aglish Parish
-James Walsh bap. 16 Feb 1840
Sponsor(s): Mrs. Fahey


John Walsh & Bridget Carney of Aglish Parish
-Thomas Walsh b. 8 Nov 1838
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh & Mary Walsh

-Patrick Walsh bap 6 Nov 1840
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Mary Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget Jennings of Barradruma/Burrin, Aglish Parish
-Patrick Walsh bap 1 Jan 1854
Sponsor(s): Patrick Corcoran and Margaret Walsh

-Mary Walsh b. 13 Apr 1855; bap. 17 Apr 1855
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Honoria Jennings


John Walsh & Bridget Gannon of Elmhall, Balla Parish
-Catherine Walsh bap 25 Feb 1839
Sponsor(s): Redmond Walsh and Margaret Cannon

-Honor Walsh bap 1 Oct 1841
Sponsor(s): Michael and Bridget Walsh

-Edmond Walsh bap. 10 Sep 1844
Sponsor(s): Peter Joyce and Honor Gannon


John Walsh & Bridget McHugh of Lognamuck, Balla Parish
-Michael Walsh bap 25 Aug 1842
Sponsor(s): Thomas and Bridget Walsh

-James Walsh bap. 28 Sep 1844
Sponsor(s): James Walsh & Bridget Kavanaugh

-John Walsh bap. 16 Apr 1846
Sponsor(s): Patrick Ryan & Mary Ryan

-Anne Walsh bap 1 Jan 1852
Sponsor(s): James Keans and Mary Walsh

-Michael Walsh bap. 1 Apr 1855
Sponsor(s): David and Elizabeth Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget Kilgallen of Balla Parish
-Margaret Walsh bap 2 Mar 1844
Sponsor(s): James Corbet & Ellen Timond

-Michael Walsh bap 10 Jan 1847
Sponsor(s): James Killgalin and Celia Killgalin


John Walsh & Bridget Mally of Cuilaneellane (and Bohane), Burriscarra Parish
-Patrick Walsh bap. 10 Feb 1845
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Mary Mally

-Mary Walsh bap 10 Feb 1846
Sponsor(s): Owen Mally and Anne Mally


John Walsh & Bridget Gavin of Maumeens, Burriscarra Parish
-Catherine Walsh bap 14 Dec 1840
Sponsor(s): Thomas Brennan and Anne Gavin


John Walsh & Bridget Comons/Commins of Crossboyne & Tagheen RC Parish
-Michael Walsh bap 21 Aug 1836
Sponsor(s): James and Bridget Walsh

-James Walsh bap 9 Jan 1838
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Bridget Mury

-Mary Walsh bap. 11 Jul 1841
Sponsor(s): James Walsh and Mary Comons

-Thomas Walsh bap. 9 Aug 1844
Sponsor(s): James Walsh and Honor Muney

Maybe same parents as above (wife Bridget Cormican?)
-William Walsh bap 11 Apr 1847
Sponsor(s): Patrick and Mary Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget Walsh of Crossboyne & Tagheen
-James Walsh bap 5 Sep 1843
Sponsor(s): Patrick Sweeny and Mary Burke


John Walsh & Bridget Foye of Crossboyne & Tagheen Parish
-Margaret Walsh bap 2 Aug 1840
Sponsor(s): Mary Kivnan


John Walsh & Bridget Burke of Killenacough, Oughaval Parish
-John Walsh bap. 14 Sep 1846
Sponsor(s): Philip Heverin & Sally Casey


John Walsh & Bridget Walsh of Aughagower, Parish same
-Michael Walsh bap 30 Apr 1846
Sponsor(s): Michael Conway and Bridget Walsh

-Anne Walsh bap 27 Jul 1849
Sponsor(s): Michael Malley and Catherine Barret


John Walsh & Bridget Malley of Cushin, Aghagower Parish
-Anthony Walsh b. 20 Mar 1855
Sponsor(s): Anthony Malley and Bridget Cannon


John Walsh & Bridget no last name rec. of Glassvalley, Shrule Parish
-Martin Walsh bap 13 Nov 1846
Sponsor(s): Martin Heskin & Catherine Walsh


John Walsh & Bridget McHale of Bekan Parish
-Peter Walsh bap 6 Jan (1841?)
Sponsor(s): William and Ellenor Jordan


John Walsh & Bridget Henely of Cahernublan, Ballovey Parish
-Mary Walsh bap 2 Jun 1850
Sponsor(s): Patrick Walsh and Patrick Farragher


John Walsh & Bridget Bourke of Cloonboy, Kilcolman Parish
-Mary Walsh bap 1 Nov 1851
Sponsor(s): John Walsh and Ellen Clarke

-Bridget Walsh bap 26 Nov 1854
Sponsor(s): Michael Walsh and Bridget Keegan


John Walsh & Bridget Walsh of Cloonliffin, Ballinrobe Parish
-Thomas Walsh bap 22 Dec 1853
Sponsor(s): Pat Walsh and Honor O'Sullivan


John Walsh & Bridget McGrath of Cregmore, Kilmaine Parish
-Anne Walsh bap 18 Nov 1854
Sponsor(s): Patrick McGrath and Mary Conroy


John Walsh & Bridget Malley of Kilmaine Parish
-Bridget Walsh bap 26 Oct 1854
Sponsor(s): Edward and Mary Naughton


John Walsh & Bridget Walsh of Keelogues Parish
-Anne Walsh bap 27 Sep 1854
Sponsor(s): Michael Murphy and Winny Caufield


John Walsh & Bridget Hughes of Seechane, Kilfian Parish
-John Walsh b. 9 Apr 1835; bap. 12 Apr 1835
Sponsor(s): John Hughes and Mary Walsh


Misc.
Co. Waterford

Judith Walsh bap. 18 Jul 1841 Newcastle Parish, Co. Waterford, parents John Walsh & Brigid Carew; sponsors Jeremiah Carew & Mary Carew.

Tuesday, February 24, 2015

Hursts from Co. Mayo?

I'm using this blog as a "scribble pad" tonight for some note-taking and to organize my thoughts. I've been focused lately on my brick walls. Lately, I have been doing some digging into some records on rootsireland.ie which is a site that has some, but not all records, for Ireland. I wanted to put what I've found together here, and hopefully it'll lead to further info down the road. The person of emphasis for this post is James Hurst.

Quick recap of known facts about James Hurst:
B. 1 Sept 1832 in County Mayo (census gives a range of years between 1832-1840, but this is the birth date given on his death record).
Immigrated: ca. 1862 according to census (haven't found a manifest to support, yet)
Parents: Michael Hurst & Catherine O'Neill
Possible other relatives? I've found no evidence of siblings of his having come with him to the U.S., or at least not to Dane Co., Wisconsin. I've been told also that his parents lived and died in Ireland. However, the 1880 census lists two nieces living with him, both having been born in Ireland. Mary, born ca. 1859 and Bridget born ca. 1864.

Something interesting I've noticed naming patterns. There are many versions of this but the most common convention I've found is:

Sons 
1st son was named after the father's father 
2nd son was named after the mother's father 
3rd son was named after the father 
4th son was named after the father's eldest brother 
5th son was named after the mother's eldest brother

Daughters 
1st daughter was named after the mother's mother 
2nd daughter was named after the father's mother 
3rd daughter was named after the mother 
4th daughter was named after the mother's eldest sister
5th daughter was named after the father's eldest sister

(source: http://www.igp-web.com/cork/Naming.html)

If I compare this to the kids of James Hurst and his wife, Mary Ann Walsh, I see some sort of pattern:
Children, in order of birth:
1) Catherine Ann Hurst (presumably named after James' mom, Catherine O'Neill)
2) Bridget Ann Hurst (named after Mary Ann's mom, Bridget Welsch)
3) Ellen Maria Hurst (??? see below...; Maria possibly naming her after mother Mary Ann Walsh)
4) Adeline Mary Hurst (?? Ellen died as a baby before Adeline was born; perhaps Mary again for her mother?)
5) Ella Monica Hurst (??)
6) Michael John Hurst (presumably named after both of their fathers, Michael Hurst and John Walsh)
7) Henry Leo Patrick Hurst (??)
8) James Sylvester Hurst (named for his father, James)
9) Thomas Vincent Hurst (??)
10) Joseph Parker Hurst (??)

The downfall of this formula is I do not have a confirmed list of all siblings of Mary Ann Walsh nor of James Hurst. I do, however, know that James likely had a sister who married a man by the name of Rice. Looking at the "pattern" compared to the actual known names, there seems to be somewhat of a pattern but backwards in a way as far as which parent's father's name was given to a child first. The third of each gender does appear to be named after the parent of the corresponding gender.  Beyond that there are a bunch of names that look unfamiliar- likely because of lack of info on siblings.

So, I took to the records. As I mentioned, the records are incomplete.. it seems that for most areas of Co. Mayo, the earliest records either start in 1840 or 1864 (of those that are online- I am not sure, but hoping that older records still exist somewhere). I thought, though, that maybe by that time period, there might be a record of deaths for either of Jameses parents, considering they both supposedly stayed in Ireland and died there.

I found an interesting death rec for a Catherine Hurst d. 17 Feb 1881 in Druminahaha, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo. She is listed as a widow, aged 68, and the informant is the "householder" named Ellen Rice, of Druminahaha. Hmm.. Hurst and Rice on the same record, in Co. Mayo. Could Ellen be Catherine's daughter? Maybe.. but wouldn't the "Relationship" field state daughter instead of householder? Perhaps being the householder was a more important notation. But the name Ellen.. that's the name of the third daughter of James and Mary Ann (Walsh) Hurst.. and the pattern was somewhat backward, so could Ellen by James' older sister? I can't get caught up in the "naming pattern" since that is not 100% reliable.

Is this record definitely James' mother and sister? It could be, but it could also NOT be. I don't have enough evidence.

So, I looked further to see if I could find any "Ellen Hurst" in this area, marrying a man by the name of Rice. I didn't find a marriage record. But, I found a lot of birth and baptismal records for children of a John Rice/Ryce and his wife Elen/Ellen HURST, in Islandeady. Importantly, they have two kids specifically who might be matches for the nieces listed as living with James Hurst in 1880 in Wisconsin. Here are, in order, the births/baptisms I found, for kids born to John Rice and Ellen Hurst (all the same unless otherwise noted):


1) James Ryce bap 8 Aug 1858 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors Peter Gavin and Mary O'Neal

2) **Mary Ryce bap. 4 Sep 1859 Islandeady RC Parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors Owen Lawless & Barbara Flyn [sic]

3) Bridget Rice bap. 23 Nov 1861 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors James Hurst and Mary McNealy

3) **Bridget Rice bap. 28 Nov 1862 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors Patrick Hurst and Cecelia Stephens

4) Catherine Rice b. 12 Feb 1865 Derrycooraun, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo

5) Ellen Rice b. 27 May 1867 Driminaha, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo

6) Honor Rice (female) b. 4 Sept 1869 Driminaha, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo
-(same person) Honor Rice b. 5 Sept 1869 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo (address Derecourane); sponsors Edward Gillen & Bridget Mulloy

7) Michael Rice b. 2 Nov 1871 Driminaha, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo
-(same person) Michael Rice bap. 24 Oct 1871 Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo (address Derecoraun); sponsors Michael Gibbons & Catherine O'Neal

8) Anne Rice b. 9 Dec 1873 Driminaha, Islandeady District, Co. Mayo

9) John Rice b. 31 Dec 1875 Driminahaha, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo parents John Rice and Ellen Hart [possibly a transcription error- address & other info match).
-(same person, presumably dates mixed up?) John Rice bap. 17 Dec 1875 Islandeady RC parish, Co.
Mayo; parents John Ryce & Ellen Hurst; sponsors Thomas Ryce & Bridget Mylott
-(a record for this same birth, found on familysearch.org lists John Rice's birthplace as Drimenahaha)

10) Patrick Rice b. 10 Jun 1878 Derrycowran, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo. (only found this one on familysearch.org)

11) Margaret Rice b. 26 Aug 1880 Driminahaha, Islandeady district, Co. Mayo. (only found this one on Familysearch.org)


Specific point: Common places mentioned: Derrycooraun, Derrycourane, and Drumminahaha are all within (according to a map) a quarter mile or less of one another. They are slightly north of the town of Islandeady.

Important highlights:

1) A sponsor named James Hurst in 1861 and no other year. My James Hurst supposedly immigrated around 1862.

2) The two girls of the same age (Mary, b. 1859) and similar age (Bridget, b. 1862) as the girls listed as nieces of James Hurst in 1880 in Wisconsin

3) The family names of the sponsors- quite a few Rices, several O'Neals and a couple of Hursts (Patrick and James).

4) The name Peter Gavin. My grandmother (whose great-grandfather is James Hurst) matched, on DNA testing, within ~4th cousin range of a woman whose great-great-grandfather's name was Richard Gavin of the Castlebar, Co. Mayo area. Richard's wife's name is Eleanor Rice. Richard was baptised in 1861 in... Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, and his parents were Thomas Gavin and Cecily Cauly; sponsors James Ryce and Mary Gavin. Thomas and Cecily were married 31 Jan 1857 in Islandeady RC parish, Co. Mayo, sponsors James Ryce and Barbara Scoot.

So, is there some sort of tie between this James Ryce and John Ryce/Rice? Is there a tie between these Gavins, Peter and Thomas, and my Hursts? Is Ellen Hurst above the sister of my James Hurst? I don't have enough info to prove this yet but it's looking pretty promising.

An addendum:

Griffiths Valuation for Derrycooraun, Islandeady Parish, shows many of these names of those on the baptismal records, living close together:





Thomas, John, and Austin Gavin; Mylott, Lawless, Gibbons, Malley (Mulloy), James Rice, John Rice





I can't quite add everything to my genealogy because it's not all connected yet, so I'm going to add more records here as I find them:
Name:Ellen Gavin
Event Date:25 Aug 1945
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Gender:Female
Age:71
Birth Year (Estimated):1874
Birth Date:12 May 1874
Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Father's Name:John Rice
Father's Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Mother's Name:Ellen Hurst
Mother's Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Occupation:housework
Residence Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Spouse's Name:Richard Gavin
Burial Date:29 Aug 1945
Burial Place:Proviso Township, Cook, Illinois
Cemetery:Mt. Carmel
Digital Folder Number: 4152319 , Image Number: 1454 , GS Film number: 1983367 , Reference ID: rn 24257

(for Ellen, all census records indicate she was born ca. 1868-1869. Her death rec is the only one that mentions 1874. She therefore fits with the Ellen mentioned at the top as being born in Druminahaha).
Find a grave for Ellen:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=107219630&ref=acom


I found this, not sure if this is the right Mary or not?

Name:Mary Boyd
Event Type:Death
Event Date:12 Sep 1913
Event Place:, Cook, Illinois, United States
Address:1905 Burling St.
Gender:Female
Age:51
Marital Status:Married
Ethnicity:American
Race:White
Occupation:Housewife
Birth Date:18 Dec 1861
Birthplace:Ireland
Burial Date:14 Sep 1913
Cemetery:St. Boniface
Father's Name:John Rice
Father's Birthplace:Ireland
Mother's Name:Ellen Hurst
Mother's Birthplace:Ireland
Record Number:925
Source Reference:cn 25503
GS Film Number: 1287710 , Digital Folder Number: 004005103 , Image Number: 00930


James Hurst possible nephew of my James Hurst.
Name:James Hurst
Event Date:30 Dec 1923
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Gender:Male
Age:55
Birth Year (Estimated):1868
Birth Date:01 Mar 1868
Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Father's Name:Patrick Hurst
Father's Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Mother's Name:Ellen Corcoran
Mother's Birthplace:Co. Mayo, Ireland
Residence Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Spouse's Name:Rose Dunn Hurst
Burial Date:04 Jan 1924
Cemetery:Mt. Carmel
Digital Folder Number: 4205897 , Image Number: 1049 , GS Film number: 1877424 , Reference ID: rn 33464


Michael Hurst possible nephew of my James Hurst
Name:Michael Hurst
Event Date:02 Jan 1929
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Gender:Male
Father's Name:Patrick Hurst
Mother's Name:Ellen Garcian
Spouse's Name:Mary Ruan
Digital Folder Number: 4153211 , Image Number: 267 , GS Film number: 1892231

Church recs from Holy Name Cathedral, State St., Chicago, Illinois.
Name:Michael Hurst
Event Type:Marriage
Event Date:14 Feb 1893
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois, United States
Gender:Male
Spouse's Name:Mary Ruane
Spouse's Gender:Female
GS Film Number: 001578586 , Digital Folder Number: 004284435 , Image Number: 00430



Name:Richard Gavin
Event Type:Marriage
Event Date:25 Jun 1890
Event Place:Chicago, Cook, Illinois, United States
Gender:Male
Spouse's Name:Ellen Rice
Spouse's Gender:Female
GS Film Number: 001578586 , Digital Folder Number: 004284435 , Image Number: 00398 


Naturalization record of Michael Hurst, with a witness of James Ryce:


Sunday, February 9, 2014

2014: Year of the Crumbling Family Mysteries? + My Brick Walls (v. long post ahead)


It's been a while since I've written but I'm just now getting some time to write about my recent discoveries. I have had some luck lately when it comes to some of the mysteries that exist in my family.

Georg Brandmueller
The first was that of Georg Brandmueller. Born in Steudach, Bavaria, Georg emigrated to Baltimore in 1847 and a year later married Johanna Hoeninger. They raised a family in Baltimore, amid some issues due to apparent mental instability of Johanna. She died in 1865 and in 1870, Georg shows up in Springfield, Dane Co., Wisconsin living near his half sister, Anna Margaretha Brandmueller Weller. Living with him is his son John, but it is uncertain where his daughter Margaretha is at this time.

After 1870 I had been unable to find Georg in any records. Shortly after this, the Wellers moved to Waseca, MN, and he is not living with his daughter Margaretha in 1880. He is also not living with his son John Martin. The church in Springfield had no record of Georg dying or otherwise being present. I had thought that perhaps Georg moved to Milwaukee, where his son ended up, but could find no evidence of this.

This past December, I discovered the bounty that is Probate records. I had never had the chance to delve into Dane County probate records before, but on this trip I looked in the index and found a few interesting names. On a whim, I decided to look at the index to see if there was a listing for Georg, even though I had found no evidence that he died in Dane County... to my amazement, there he was. The Archives room was silent and I had to try pretty hard to contain my excitement. I ordered the file and waited patiently.. Inside I found some interesting documents.

The very first page included a handwritten notice, stating that Georg Brandmueller had died 26 June 1874 (AHA!), leaving no will. It further states that he died "without leaving a widow or children of legal age to administer his Estate." (This is curious because his daughter Margaret was 24 at this time, so I'm not sure what the legal age was back then) A man named John Schurz was submitting this document to appeal for role of administrator of the estate, as he was already Georg Brandmueller's creditor.

John Schurz was approved as the administrator, and interestingly, the men who helped him appraise the estate included George Weller, Georg's brother-in-law. Georg left very few possessions, most of them relating to his business of shoemaking and repair.

My next step was- well, where was he buried? I still haven't answered that. I thought that perhaps there might be an obituary in a local paper, although I wasn't sure because obits were not very common in the 1870s. I checked the German language paper for Madison (the Wisconsin Botschafter- which is indexed under Monroe, WI, instead of Madison for some reason). I did find a very short notice, and what it said in the 2-3 sentences was very shocking. It mentioned that a shoemaker by the name Brandmueller had killed himself by cutting his wrists, and that there had been similar previous issues with his wife. It also stated that he left behind two children.

In that time period, the Catholic church very strongly frowned upon those who killed themselves, so much so that they were not permitted to be buried on consecrated ground. No wonder there was no record of his burial at the church, because there was no way he would have been buried there. Because of how little money he had, I doubt that where ever he was buried, was marked. So it seems that I may never find his final resting place. There are many small cemeteries in the area of Springfield/Corners and Martinsville, and  I tried looking through most of them at one point several years ago, not having any success. This may just be the final mystery of Georg, figuring out where he was buried, and unfortunately no one living may have the answer to that.

Everett Elisha Reynolds
The next mystery was that of my ancestor Everett Elisha Reynolds, another shoemaker, who appears to have been quite a colorful character. Everett was born in 1847 in North Bridgewater, MA, and moved with his family at a young age to Caribou, Aroostook Co., ME. He married in 1869, had several children. His wife died 7 years later, and most of the children died young (only one lived to adulthood). A few years after the death of his wife, Everett appears in Wisconsin, marries Catherine McConnell, and has three children (including my ancestor Alex Reynolds).

Around the time of the birth of the third child, Everett disappears from Wisconsin, leaving behind his family. There is an article written about 25 years later stating that he traveled to California, Scotland and several other places, and then appears in Massachusetts where he finds an old plow and tows it all the way home to his folks' place in Caribou, ME. The article mentions that much of the information they have is from a diary which belonged to Everett. Everett next appears in census records in Hartford and Canton, Maine, but is not present on the 1930 census.

After this time I was unable to determine where or when Everett lived and died. He had a gravestone next to his first wife in Green Ridge Cemetery, but there was no death date on the stone, indicating he may not be buried there. The gravestone did have an I.O.O.F symbol on it, so I decided to contact the Maine organization to see if they had any records of former members. I had tried this several years ago and gotten no response, but this year I received a response almost immediately, that they would look into it and let me know. They determined that there was an Everett Reynolds who died in Canton around that time, but the information from their records didn't list an exact death date.

I contacted the Town of Canton office to see if they could help. A couple of weeks later, I received a certified copy in the mail: They found that Everett had actually died 7 April 1937 (in Canton), making him almost 90 years old! The death record did list his parents so I could make sure it was actually him, and lucky for me it listed his burial location. I couldn't be more happy to have solved yet another mystery!

Remaining Mystery
Despite having finally determined where and when Everett Elisha Reynolds died, there are still a lot of questions- why did he leave Wisconsin? Why didn't he come back to his family? Or did he? I haven't found him in the 1900 census yet. The biggest question I have, and which I think could answer a lot more questions, is where on earth is that diary of his? Does it still exist, and does it include information on why he left his Wisconsin family behind?

I have sent many queries over the years to various historical societies, hoping to locate the diary (or at least, if it doesn't exist anymore, to gain that knowledge). The new death information caused me to revisit everything I knew about Everett. As such an elusive and colorful ancestor, I have spent a lot of time tracking as much information down about him as I can. I had found a newspaper article from 1926 which was written by O.B. Griffin, which details Everett's biography and the story of bringing the plow back to Caribou. It [in]conveniently mentions nothing about his connections to Wisconsin.

The plow had been donated to the Caribou Historical Society eventually. I had contacted them and they had sent me photocopies of various articles and other things which related to the plow or the Reynolds family, and one of them was a typescript copy from the 1980s which was written by a Stacy Griffin and mentioned that he was transcribing directly from the diary. So, it seems that the diary was still around in the mid-1980s... but what about now? I kept looking at this photocopies and then tried to determine what the relationship is between O.B. Griffin, author of the original story, and Stacy Griffin, author of a later typescript. It turns out they were father and son.

All of a sudden wheels started turning-- if O.B. was writing a detailed account of information from this diary in 1926 and 60 years later, his son was transcribing information from the same diary... could it be possible that the Griffin family has this diary, or knows where it may be? I rushed to contact my acquaintance, Jim, who lives in the Caribou area, as it is a lowly populated area and I figured he might know of Stacy Griffin or other Griffin relatives. He did know of a nephew of Stacy, who I called about two weeks ago. He did not personally know anything about the diary, but he stated that he knew of two people who may have some idea of it. I am waiting now to hear back from him, but am very excited to perhaps being close to solving yet another mystery. Even if it turns out that the diary was destroyed and no longer exists, at least I will have that peace of mind. I do hope that the diary, or perhaps a full transcription, may reside within the Griffin family, and am looking forward to trying to find out for sure.


My Other Brick Walls & Mysteries
(In alphabetical order)

Johann Diebold:
Where was Johann/John Diebold born, and who were his parents? His death record states that the names of his parents were Joseph and Margaret Diebold, with no maiden name listed for his mother. There is no town of birth listed. Various census records indicate he was born in the Alsace region of France/Germany. His death notice written by his wife Adelheid, states only that he was born in "Elsass-Zabern," or Alsace-Saverne, on the 18th of July, 1828. A recently discovered 1860 census for him in New York states that he was born in "Strasburg" or Strasbourg as it is written today.

The nice thing about this region of the cities of Strasbourg and Saverne is that the records appear to all be online (http://www.archivosgenbriand.com/index_english.html). The bad thing is, Johann does not appear to have been born in either of those cities directly, but perhaps in a local village or neighboring town. I have spent a long time looking through towns from the Bas-Rhin region on that site, finding various scatterings of Diebolds in the records- but no Johann so far. What to do? Look through records for every village, town and city in the Bas-Rhin region and hope I find him??


Wilhelmine Hammel:
According to her death record, Wilhelmine Hammel Liebenow was born 30 January 1830 in Germany. There was no place name listed. Her parents were listed as Gottfried and Louisa Hammel. What seems apparent is that she and Christian Liebenow were married in Germany, as their son Ferdinand Liebenow was born in Blumberg, Brandenburg, Germany. Christian was born in Passow, which is relatively close to Blumberg, and my guess would therefore be that Wilhelmine was born in Blumberg and that they were married in Blumberg as well. This is based on the tradition of the man marrying the woman at her home church, and then staying in her home town to raise their children. Because this is just speculation, I will need to prove this. I have not been sure where to begin looking and will need to research specific Archives in the area which may hold the answer I'm looking for.


Louis Hess:
Louis Hess was born October 8th, 1851- but where? And who are his parents? All records indicate that he was born in Alsace-Lorraine. His death record lists a father, Killian Hess, born in France. Other than that, neither his naturalization record nor immigration record list a town of birth, making it pretty near impossible to determine where to look for a birth record and further search on his ancestry. Unless I look through every town in the Alsace region (http://www.archivosgenbriand.com/index_english.html) for a birth record for Louis. That would take a very long time to do.


James Hurst:
Where was he born? And, really, when? His death record states he was born 1 Sept 1832 in County Mayo, Ireland, but no town name is given. Every single census record has a different approximate birth year, including- 1833, 1834, 1836, and 1840. The 1900 census even states he was born in May of 1837- so which is it? I haven't begun to look in Ireland for records, as I haven't determined where to even start. The nice thing is, his death record lists his parents as Michael Hurst and Catherine O'Neill, if we can trust that in the light of all of the mixed up potential years and dates of birth.


John Mayville:
We have DNA evidence which links me and my Mayville line to the immigrant ancestor, Pierre Miville, who was born in Switzerland in the early 17th century. Based on various DNA evidence, we have been linked to Pierre's son Jacques and his wife, Marie Catharine De Baillon (a Filles du Roi). The problem is we have never found definitive evidence of who the parents of John Mayville (b. ca. 1790-1792 according to census records) are. My fellow Miville descendant, Carroll, has spent a long time researching the French Canadians and concluded that based his information, our John Mayville is likely the son of Jean Minville and Marie-Veronique Richard.

Since that original DNA test several years ago, DNA testing has gotten more advanced. Through Ancestry DNA, my grandfather Mayville has taken the test and his DNA has matched closely with others who appear to be descended from Marie-Veronique's parents and grandparents, as well as several who are descended from Jean Minville's mother (Marie-Jeanne Fache)'s parents. Is this definitive proof? Not for me. Anyone can have anything in their family tree, and with how much intermarrying occurred in French Canada, it is sure possible that regardless of my actual lineage, we would match closely with some of these same individuals based on that fact alone. The DNA testing has given me good hope that our belief in John Mayville's parentage is correct, however, I still need hard evidence.

The issue here is I still have not been able to determine when or where John Mayville died. It is believed he died in the DePere or Wrightstown area where he had a farm, but I've found no death record, no death date, and nothing to go off of. The last record I have of him is on 23 Dec 1867 when he and his wife Susan deed land to their daughter Rebecca and her husband George Bowers. John Mayville does not appear on the 1870 census, as far as I have been able to find, making it likely that he died shortly after ridding himself of the land in December of 1867.

Going back further, we have not yet found records (church or otherwise) for the marriage of John Mayville and Susan Reynolds, nor for the births of their children, in Vermont. John was certainly born in Canada, and he first appears on tax rolls in Swanton, Vermont, from 1819 to 1823. Susan's father, Silas, also appears in tax rolls around the same time period, making it likely that they were married in Swanton. However, I still need to find record of that. In 1836 John is given land in Highgate, Vermont. Both of these towns are relatively close to the border with Canada, and the family appears to have moved back and forth between the two towns rather fluidly.

So, I still need to find record of both John Mayville's marriage and death, and I would like to find birth records for their children, if possible.


Alex McConnell:
According to his death record, Alexander McConnell, a prominent businessman in the Jefferson (WI) area, was born on June 8th in 1824, in Perry County, Pennsylvania. There are no parents' names listed. The problem is I cannot find a birth record, and the only Historical Society in the area of Perry County requires $50 for a short search of their records. So far I haven't determined that to be an amount of money I can afford for what would be a search with possibly no results. I would like to track down local churches in the area and see if there is more information there, but have so far been unsuccessful as I do not know where to look for that information.

In Jefferson, it seems that Alex was a member of the Evangelical church, and I would like to look for records there which might hold more clues to Alex's ancestry, but I don't know if this church still exists, and where any possible records may be from this time period.


Mary Ann McGee:
According to her death record from Fond du Lac county, Wisconsin, Mary Ann McGee was born February 27, 1827 in Pompton Township, Passaic County, New Jersey. Her parents' names are not listed, but census records state that both her mother and father were born in New York. As has been so often the case on this list, I have not been able to find a birth record for Mary Ann in New Jersey, as I have not known what church to target to look for, and I am unfamiliar with research in New Jersey.


Ernestine Schassow? Or Ulrith?:
This seems to be the woman of a thousand names. The death record of her daughter, Augusta Koch Liebenow, states her name as Ernestine Schassow. On census records in Pennsylvania, however, her name appears to actually be Christina, and this is confirmed by her death record in Carrick, Allegheny Co., PA. This death record states she was born 25 August 1832.

A man who is related to me through her husband's family (the Koch family) was able to look at the records in Germany for the Koch family, and also sent me information on their marriage, which took place in Bagemuehl, a small town pretty close to Penkun, which is where her husband, Ernest Koch was born. This marriage record indicated that she was born in Bagemuehl.

From other information, I knew that the family belonged to Smithfield E.E. Lutheran church in the Pittsburgh area, and a man there sent me his transcription of her death record, which stated that in fact her maiden name was actually Ulrith, and that she was born in "Strsethof," Pomerania as he wrote it, although he noted that it was quite difficult to read. There is a town in West Pomerania that today is in Poland and is Strzeszów (Stresow in German), but this place is relatively far from Bagemuehl where she was supposedly married to Ernest Koch. Because I couldn't see the record with my own eyes, I have to doubt this church record, or at least hold it to a different light, than the other evidence available.

The next step is to try to locate a birth/baptismal record for her in Germany (or Poland, as the case may be), but it is complicated by the fact that there are two possible maiden names for her (or perhaps one of them was another married name?). I have sent for the death records of her two sons to see if they may shed light on what her name really was.


Peter Tice:
Peter Tice has also been elusive. I have yet to prove who his parents were, as well as when and where he and his wife Elizabeth Romaine died. There is no definitive proof of his parentage. The only true record I have of him is of his marriage to Elizabeth Romaine on 28 Jan 1819. This marriage record does not list his parents. I have also not been able to determine when he died. There are several dates speculated, including that he died in Michigan in 1855, but the obituary for that person does not clearly match what is known about our Peter Tice. That, and he seems to be in Pompton, Passaic Co., NJ, still on the 1860 census. I have not found evidence that he followed his son Ralph to Wisconsin, so it seems likely that he may have died in New Jersey.

Another source has speculated that he died in 1863, however this will does not mention either of his first three known children, John, Letitia and Ralph Tice, only those who appear on later census records. This in itself raises suspicion of whether we have the right Peter Tice on those later census records, but again, it has been difficult to find records which support either an earlier or later death date.

An interesting factor is the recent DNA testing my grandmother underwent (her mother was Blanche Tice). She matched closely (supposedly in the range of 4th cousins), with a woman who descends from Anna Tice b. ca. 1763 and married a Ferris Doty. In the Tice Families in America book, the authors speculated, but could not prove, that Anna's parents were Hendrick Tysse and Fytje Vreeland. Also speculated was that she had a brother named Peter Tice, by the same parents. There is a record of a Peter Tice being born on 30 Jul 1796. There is no record of Anna Tice being born to Hendrick and Fytje, in fact, if she was born in 1763, that would be a whole 12 years before record of their first known child being born, in 1775. However, in that same church, there is a record for an Antje (Anna) Tysse being born 31 Jul 1766 to a Johannes and Maria Tysse. In speculation, this Johannes Tysse may have been a brother to Hendrick Tysse, making Anna b. 1766 the first cousin of Peter b. 1796- and if this indeed was able to be proven as my Peter Tice, then it would indeed fit with how closely my grandmother and this other woman have matched on the DNA site (4th cousin with 96% confidence).

Is there a record somewhere of Peter's death (and Elizabeth Romaine Tice's, too, for that matter)? Can that lead us to the names of his parents? At this point I'm running out of places to look, but also am unfamiliar with most resources in the New Jersey area.


John & Bridget Walsh:
I know virtually nothing about these two. They are the parents of my ancestor, Mary Ann Walsh Hurst. She was supposedly born in Galway, Ireland, but it is unclear if this was County Galway or the city of Galway. Making it more difficult is how ridiculously common her name is, coupled with the ridiculously commonplace names of her parents. The obvious starting point is locating her birth record in Ireland, but I do not know where or how to begin, so there isn't much to go from as far as determining more about John and Bridget Walsh. I have obtained death records for both of their other daughters who lived to adulthood, Anna Walsh Ryan and Bridget Walsh Busby, and they list their parents as unknown or as how I have written them- nobody seems to have known mother Bridget's maiden name.

Amazingly, there is a picture of Bridget from the early 1890s shortly before she died. But we know almost nothing about her. She died 12 April 1895 in Waunakee, and the death record indicates she was born in February of 1809 in Ireland, but no further information about where she was born nor who her parents were.

John is even less well known. The only information on him comes from his gravestone in St. Mary of the Lake cemetery, which stated that he was born in 1811 and died in 1878 (not lucky enough that the stone listed exact dates). I have tried contacting the church for information, as they should certainly have at least a burial date for him if not a more complete record, but so far they have been unwilling or unable to provide information on him. So, John Walsh, one of thousands with that same name, remains a complete mystery.


Simon Walter / Walther:
Where was Simon Walter born, and who were his parents? For a long time I knew virtually nothing about Simon other than his name (which seems to vary sometimes as Simeon (death record @ his German Ev. Lutheran church), Seaman (1860 census), and Samuel (1880 census)). I accidentally came across a findagrave record for him, stating he was buried in St. John's Lutheran Church's cemetery in Oak Creek, and soon contacted the church inquiring about records. I'm sure I've written about this in the past, but they allowed me to come in person to take a look at the church registers, and view Simon's death/burial record. This record provided a birth date of April 10, 1810, and stated that he was born in "Neubeuren bf. Wiesenfeld."

So what's the problem? Well... from every single person I've ever asked, German native or not, there doesn't seem to be a place called Neubeuren that exists near a place called Wiesenfeld. Scattered throughout Germany are a variety of towns called either Neubeuren, Wiesenfeld, or some variation of either name, but never are they near one another.

Further complicating this: I don't know what German state to even start looking in. Each census listed a different birth location for Simon. The 1860 census stated he was from Hanover, the 1870 census stated he was from Prussia, and the 1880 census stated he was from Bayern (Bavaria). I tried looking at old maps to see if any point any of these places really overlapped and I could find nothing (although I am certainly not an expert on mid-19th century Germany localities.

I could start asking Archives located near ever possible town named Neubeuren or Wiesenfeld, but most of them charge a fortune (thanks, dollar, for being worth so much less than the euro), so it isn't financially plausible to do that and hope I hit the right place. So if anyone has any suggestions on where this place could be, that would be very helpful.